topic Re: Cigraph Paranoia in Collaboration with other software

Cigraph Paranoia

gpowless — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 12:01:52 GMT

I spent part of my day trying to log on, download and update a number of Cigraph products. The "new Cigraph dongle will make it easier" they say.

I disagree. I see no need for such elaborate protection on an add-on for Archicad.

Is this really warranted? And how many people would steal the add-on if it was made available? Our USB ports are already overloaded and complicated protection systems for moderately useful products are a waste of resources and a waste of my time. I would rather see Cigraph put better quality into their products.

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

Dwight — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 14:32:40 GMT

You are hopelessly naive.
Just search the internet, see what is there and imagine yourself having developed those products:

Bitter tears falling in latte.

I am only surmising that the new dongle is only a finger in the floodgate.

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

gpowless — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:21:55 GMT

I am hardly naive. The fact is that two-bit add-ons don't ever stand alone. Archicad has every reason to offer key-based software protection. A product like Archistair or even Architerra does not - especially since it can't be used with anything other than Archicad.

It was bad enough that we had to fumble through a web based serialization for Cigraph products before but going to a dongle is the most absurd thing I have encountered in my 35 years in the industry.

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

Dwight — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:26:11 GMT

I absolutely agree with you about the dongles, but just look at what is out there to steal!

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:09:14 GMT

I, too, am short on USB sockets and have to wonder about the need for another dongle vs the protection methods employed by Encina (OBJECTiVE, FrameWright, etc) and CadImage (CadImage Tools etc) and Abvent (online movable electronic license).

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

gpowless — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:57:34 GMT

As of this date 84% say Cigraph's days are numbered.

What say you Cigraph?

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

gpowless — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 13:22:04 GMT

87% and rising.

Does Cigraph even care?

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

Karl Ottenstein — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:47:45 GMT

Let's not get annoying by posting the percentage every day...for how long?

Only 18 people have voted - a statistically uninteresting number. Give it some time.

I'm still in the "too many dongles" camp ... I don't want to have to deal with yet another USB hub in order to have enough sockets, and to remember to carry around so many things.

It would have been nice if there had been some coordination with GS so that people who wanted the Cigraph licenses loaded onto the existing ArchiCAD dongle could have done so. Most useful for the solo practitioner. In an office setting, the separate Cigraph dongle is kind of useful since you can pass it around... which in the end would seem to lower sales, I would think?

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

gpowless — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:23:41 GMT

If I remind people to vote, or solicit Cigraph's response it is only to instigate open and thorough discussion to what I consider a serious issue.

I appreciate that you are concerned with the dongles too but that is not the only issue. I think that being held hostage to software / add-on products is criminal....in fact that is why I choose Archicad in the first place - to have greater flexibility than the other competitors offered. And if being subject to Cigraph's paranoia is "annoying" then I suggest that you skip over future posts in this thread...or just hit your ignore button so you don't have to participate.

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:31:25 GMT

In any case, if you continue to make a post here every day, I'm going to delete this thread. Let things flow normally please. Your postings are bordering on abusing the forums.

Thanks,
Karl

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

gpowless — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:49:04 GMT

Then go ahead and delete f'ing thread.

Deleting this would only serve to hurt us all in finding the answers to our questions. After all that IS what this forums is all about, no?

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:22:27 GMT

I want to vote, but where? there's not an option to vote, of course I will vote for NO.
Thanks.
Just for you to know, I have been very interested in some of Cigraph's products, I have asked for information, asked some questions and I never received any answer from Cigraph and after reading all the posts regarding Cigraph, I don't think I will spend my money in a product that I will not get any response from, and worst I've read that there is people that already has their products and can't use them!!
Unbeleivable, I thought Cigraph was a serious company and I'm very surprised that it seems that Cigraph doesn't care at all, I haven't read anything from them regarding all this poblems.

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

Anonymous — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:36:22 GMT

I was contemplating buying their Architime for AC12 which Cigraph claims is available online. I did go onto their website but frankly I found it kinda confusing to purchase online. I may have heard some grumbling about their products before. After reading the postings on this forum it does give me pause. I wish Graphisoft would build in the time tracking feature in their future release.

Dave

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:32:09 GMT

I'm no expert on copy protection so I don't know about the soft options, but I much prefer the hardware key for Cigraph add-ons than the old way of tying them to specific ArchiCAD keys. Most people don't need the add-ons on all their machines and trying to keep track of which AC keys are tied to which Cigraph add-ons can get unmanageable.

For example: You may have 10 ArchiCAD licenses but only need one copy of Architerra and two copies of Archiforma (and whatever else) which may be used in various combinations by anyone at various times. The old way was to swap around the AC keys, but this can quickly get very difficult to track and practically impossible in some configurations. With the new Cigraph keys it becomes very simple.

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

Erika Epstein — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 04:02:10 GMT

Matthew wrote:
. Most people don't need the add-ons on all their machines and trying to keep track of which AC keys are tied to which Cigraph add-ons can get unmanageable.

This is an excellent point Matthew!

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:29:41 GMT

I completely agree with Matthew!, For example, now it will be easier to us to persuade the heads to buy at least under one licence for products Cigraph.
gpowless, you rustle for nothing. If Cigraph will suffer defeat on Mohawk Territory, he will win in Russia.

Soon on sale! The clod has not enough place for those in their hubs.

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

gpowless — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:05:40 GMT

Erika wrote:
Matthew wrote:
. Most people don't need the add-ons on all their machines and trying to keep track of which AC keys are tied to which Cigraph add-ons can get unmanageable.
This is an excellent point Matthew!

It is a good point. Which is why site licenses would allow the add-on to be used (or not) and any machine in the organization. The bigger problem is that now with the add-on tied to a piece of hardware if two people want to use different products on the same dongle, production slows down until the first one is finished using it OR you are forced into buying a second dongle and license to use the add-ons occasionally. It isn't very practical in my view.

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:46:22 GMT

One key to all products? Hmm ... it is worse for the organization, which makes extensive use of Add-Ons.

But I think the organization could buy a few Dongle.

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:38:17 GMT

gpowless wrote:
...Which is why site licenses would allow the add-on to be used (or not) and any machine in the organization.

I haven't checked with Cigraph, but I imagine that their WIBU key could be set up as a network license just like ArchiCAD with some limited number of licenses allowed to run concurrently on any machines.

The bigger problem is that now with the add-on tied to a piece of hardware if two people want to use different products on the same dongle, production slows down until the first one is finished using it OR you are forced into buying a second dongle and license to use the add-ons occasionally. It isn't very practical in my view.

Assuming the network solution doesn't work for whatever reason, managing the floating dongles would depend on the needs of the firm. In some cases a single key with multiple add-ons would work (that's how I use them) in other cases one key per add-on makes more sense. It doesn't seem like rocket science to figure out which way will work best for a particular firm and to purchase accordingly.

Re: Cigraph Paranoia

Richard Morrison — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:03:27 GMT

It appears that Cigraph is charging 45 EUR ( $56 USD) for a new dongle. I never received the (supposedly free) one in the mail, so am I now required to buy one?

Paying for a dongle so that Cigraph will be protected, at least to me, is just another "nail in the coffin."