topic Re: AC11 to SKP to 3D Warehouse problem in Collaboration with other software

AC11 to SKP to 3D Warehouse problem

Anonymous — Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:33:48 GMT

I have been trying to put a current project model into GE.
A fairly simple block of apartments but heavily detailed.
So I have made a stripped down, racing copy with all the non essential elements stripped out and many of the remaining layers closed off.
All that is effectively left are the external walls, major floor slabs and the roof constructions.
The AC11 to SKP to 3DW system seems to work but after 20 minutes of file rebuilding and transmission, all I get is a one line error message that the file size has to be less than 10Mb.
No indication as to whether this is still 100Mb, or 10.1Mb.
It is not a major project and therefore it opens the question, if GS have gone to the trouble to implement the interface, how come it is effectively unusable for even a modest project?
The polycount is now less than 40k, having started at over 200k and is devoid of internal fittings, doors and plumbing. Nothing more to remove other than the shell itself.

So, suggestions on how to make this functional, please.
Also, is there any way to determine the actual failed file size at 3DW?

Lastly, is there any way to export the AC11 directly to SKP, so it can be modified in SU or simply emailed to a client without using 3DW?

Re: AC11 to SKP to 3D Warehouse problem

Thomas Holm — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:57:48 GMT

Granville wrote:
is there any way to export the AC11 directly to SKP, so it can be modified in SU or simply emailed to a client without using 3DW?

AC11 exports 3D .dwg and .3ds files (Save As with an 3D view active).
Sketchup Pro imports both.

Re: AC11 to SKP to 3D Warehouse problem

Anonymous — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:19:42 GMT

"Thomas Holm" wrote:

AC11 exports 3D .dwg and .3ds files (Save As with an 3D view active).
Sketchup Pro imports both.

Thanks, not thought of that!

Tried both options and got a circa 15Mb file size each time.
Both had been stripped of their textures and have problems in re-establishment, in that - for instance - applied tile surfaces run right across velux roof lights with the DWG.

Certainly quicker to form a model than starting from scratch in SU but if nothing else, it shows what a good job AC11 is doing.

I still need to find out how to determine the actual file size after transfer to GE and if there is any way to increase the limit, to enable viable quality exchanges into 3DW.

Re: AC11 to SKP to 3D Warehouse problem

Thomas Holm — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:17:25 GMT

Granville wrote:
I still need to find out how to determine the actual file size after transfer to GE and if there is any way to increase the limit, to enable viable quality exchanges into 3DW.

You could skip 3DW and just zip the file and send it to your client with the advice to use Google skechup or the simple Sketchup Viewer (both free) to view it.

In my view, 3DS is a more eficient transfer format than DWG.

But if you need to trim the file size, you might try to remove all textures and materials (especially tiles etc that are modeled in 3D to some extent) before exporting from Archicad. If possible, keep only flat, straight simple surfaces. Then apply new textures within Sketchup. Since SU only uses simple OpenGL textures, they should require less memory.

Re: AC11 to SKP to 3D Warehouse problem

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:19:38 GMT

The main objective of using 3DW was to put a high quality model in true location which would be accessible to all and sundry.

My Client, the Developer, has an existing link on his Web Site to GE which currently (well till a few days ago) showed an SU version of the project as at Planning Stage.

As the design has now refined and evolved, with a few features added and some removed, the idea was to use the working version of the AC model to supplant the SU version.

Judging by the file sizes of the translated versions, via 3DS and DXF, it is in the order of 15/17Mb, which doesn't bode well for cutting it down to sub 10. They are also full of errors which would require massive effort to fully correct. Also, I was hoping to not have to re-invent the wheel in SU when I have a fully functional version in AC.

The direct output from AC to GE looks good, with all the detail, textures and transparency of glazing but in this format is only visible to me.

Does anyone know if the live AC>GE version of the model is the same Graphisoft to SU translation which is lodged in the 3DW, or if it is a cut down clone, or even a smoke'n'mirrors system, using the live AC data, on the originating pc, linked to the GE view?

Eitherway, presumably, the File Size limitation is imposed by Google.

So, has anyone succeeded in placing a substantial real building this way? If so, please post a GE link so I can check it out and see how it compares in size and detail to what I am attempting to achieve.

Thanks.

Re: AC11 to SKP to 3D Warehouse problem

Djordje — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:24:29 GMT

Granville,

While all the abbreviations and acronyms might be clear to you, trust me, they are not to many present here.

Could you explain what is what so that we can begin to understand? GE is Google Earth, I presume, as I don't think General Electric has anythign to do with the case 😉

And, did you try this:

http://www.graphisoft.com/products/archicad/solutions/google_earth_connection.html

Re: AC11 to SKP to 3D Warehouse problem

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:15:14 GMT

Djordje,
Sorry, looks like I am too close to the trees to see the woods.
Essentially,
GE, is as you surmise, Google Earth
3DW, 3D Warehouse
SU, SketchUp
SKP, SketchUp Plan (file format)
AC, Archicad (now there's a surprise!!!)

The live AC>GE being a reference to the "Send Virtual Building Model to Google Earth" command from the drop down menu.

And, yes I have read the AC/GE Help Files and watched the mini videos (which are neat - especially for us dyslexics)

In general, the system seems to be working, in that I can put (after some transmission delay) quite a complex and good looking version of the project in the Google Earth terrain. Unfortunately, this model doesn't seem to be savable in this format in a way which is accessible to the general public, which is the objective of the exercise.

The plan was to replace my old SketchUp model, with the updated AC version, which I had just been looking at as a Live Overlay. This did not work as it was rejected as being larger than 10Mb. Unfortunately, it does not say by how much, too large it is. This would be useful information - so - is there any way to find out the true file size as rejected by 3D Warehouse.

This answer would indicate the practicality of paring it down further if it is close, or giving up if it is vastly out of range.

For what is quite a complex model, my cut down version only has 38/39k polygons, which I would not have thought excessive.

There are probably a dozen or more textures required to do the rendering, is it these which are overloading the file size limit?

I just find it disappointing that even a relatively small building project is apparently too large to work within the system provided to do the job.

I am sure that it has been thoroughly tested by GS (sorry, Graphisoft ... ) before going public and should be capable of providing a viable functionality.

Re: AC11 to SKP to 3D Warehouse problem

IArvay — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:25:14 GMT

Granville,

The problem with your model is basically it's size.
The scale of detail in ArchiCAD and Google Earth is a lot different.
For example, in ArchiCAD you model each door and window, and a 30K polygon number is not huge.
But in Google Earth the principle is mainly to make simple mass models with textures adding the detail. (So, for example the doors and windows are just "painted" on the walls.) 30K poly number is a quite lot (typical is a few hundred).

I suggest to turn off windows and doors, leaving an empty hole only, or model the building without openings, and apply textures on the facades (see orthers' examples on Google Earth). Maybe the time will come that full detailed buildings will be possible in GE, but currently it isn't the case.

Greetings,

Illes

Re: AC11 to SKP to 3D Warehouse problem

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 16:59:03 GMT

Your probably right on the size comparison between a SketchUp Cube with a draped skin and a working AC model, even if stripped down to its bare essentials.

However, the objective here was to display a real-world version of the apartments as a sale's aid for the Client. We can do that by email, or on disk but GE is such a neat tool it seems a shame not to be able to use it.

Looks like I will have to put the old SU version back into GE and forget about using my AC model.

As there has obviously been a considerable effort by GS to enable this linkage, hasn't anything been done to expand the size limit, so that good quality models can be displayed?

Re: AC11 to SKP to 3D Warehouse problem

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:01:51 GMT

A further addition to this string.

Having pared the model away even further, simplified almost everything and omitted lots of internal doors completely, I am still getting the >10Mb notification, without any indication of by how much I am over.

It occurs to me that if I redirect the SketchUp output to my own pc, instead of Google Earth, I would at least know how much more I have to trim (or if it is simply not practical). I could then upload the remaining shell from SU.

Problem is that I can't find a way to export a model to SU without an intermediate translation, which seem to breakdown a lot of the faces and introduce many extraneous artefacts.

Is there a way to use the new SU conversion routine to save to disk?

Re: AC11 to SKP to 3D Warehouse problem

Djordje — Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:11:30 GMT

A shot in the dark: did you kill all the door handles, and set all the doors and windows to Simple? Check the polycount then.

Re: AC11 to SKP to 3D Warehouse problem

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:24:24 GMT

Not only killed the handles but removed the internal doors and a lot of other stuff too.

Can get to just below 30k polys but it is having an unacceptable visual impact. At 31k, looks good and does an adequate job on my pc version.

Unfortunately, this is still not getting under the 10Mb limit. No idea how far out it is.

Re: AC11 to SKP to 3D Warehouse problem

Dennis Lee — Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:52:09 GMT

The way to goto SKP for me is to save as 3ds file, with the "Merge Coplanar Faces" option checked, then import from Sketch Up.

FYI, I had a 50,000 polycount model that was 4M in AC, went to 2M in 3ds, then after import and save to SKP, ended up being 6M.