topic Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12 in Collaboration with other software

artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Anonymous — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:28:43 GMT

Has anyone tried (or even beta-tested) Artlantis 3 on a mac platform?
I'm wondering if it is stable and fully compatible with AC12 and older Artlantis legacy files
The new features look impressive....but the reviews still leave me wondering.

Thanks
e

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:47:35 GMT

Yes. I tested 3 for several months on my Mac Pro, first under Leopard and finally under Snow Leopard. It runs beautifully and can open all older files.

Just note that if you open an older file, while all new features are available for you use, you will not magically have more information. Model layers are only in an atl file if you export using the Artlantis 3 export add-on.

I found the Artlantis 3 user interface much more fluid and responsive than in any earlier version. In earlier versions, I sometimes experienced UI delays, or had to do strange things to modify some values. On my Mac Pro, Artlantis 3 works as quickly as I do with no delays, no crashes.

Karl

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Anonymous — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:03:10 GMT

thanks... i know what you mean by 'strange things'...
but wow - your review sounds impressive. my archicad models are usually quite large...so i'll try to follow up on the topic of speed.

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:22:58 GMT

emerich wrote:
i'll try to follow up on the topic of speed.

Keep in mind that I have 8 cores, which accounts for a good deal of the responsiveness that I experience since all cores are used to generate the preview.

Look forward to hearing your experiences. Try the demo.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Thomas Holm — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:24:40 GMT

Karl wrote:
emerich wrote:
i'll try to follow up on the topic of speed.
l

Karl,
I'd just like to know your opinion on the speed complaints that's turned up in the Artlantis forums. Do you think it's a question of less than ideal user settings, or is this a real problem with Artlantis 3 compared to 2?

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:50:51 GMT

Thomas wrote:
Karl wrote:
emerich wrote:
i'll try to follow up on the topic of speed.
l
Karl,
I'd just like to know your opinion on the speed complaints that's turned up in the Artlantis forums. Do you think it's a question of less than ideal user settings, or is this a real problem with Artlantis 3 compared to 2?

Hi Thomas,

Well, I have not experienced any speed issue at all for exterior, daytime renders. Some people have reported that things are somewhat (10-20%?) slower - but the quality is higher. So, it is a tradeoff.

Rendering a friend's file for him, there was a big increase in time for high antialiasing of a neon shader casting light on a bump mapped surface. But, the result was better than before.

The radiosity can now be adjusted with advanced settings - and depending on those settings, things may take longer. "Easy" settings for "exterior" and "interior" are there for most people.

Depending on the settings, the preview may generate more slowly. With 8 cores, I would not really notice that. Somebody with 1 or 2 cores probably would. So, I'm interested in hearing emerich's experiences.

The UI speed is a different issue than the render speed, and the UI is perfectly fluid.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Thomas Holm — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:59:28 GMT

Thanks, Karl. To me, your opinion is important. I'll buy!

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:20:43 GMT

Thomas wrote:
Thanks, Karl. To me, your opinion is important. I'll buy!

Thanks, Thomas ...but I don't want the guilt of potential disappointment.

Please download the demo of 3 to see if it performs satisfactorily on your machine. 😉

Cheers,
Karl

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Thomas Holm — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:35:01 GMT

Karl wrote:
Thanks, Thomas ...but I don't want the guilt of potential disappointment.

Don't worry. I know what I'm doing. I didn't believe it but I had to check if there were any substance to the alleged 10x increase of render times. I've got a more recent MacPro with 16 virtual cores, so if its fast enough on your machine it should be on mine. Artl2 uses all the cores. And I've used Abvent software since 1985 so I'm aware of the risks involved. I promise I won't sue you

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

David Collins — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:08:42 GMT

Testing the Artlantis 3 demo I'm afraid I have seen render times increase by an order of ten, both with projects migrated from Artlantis 2 and with projects generated entirely in 3. I hasten to add the models I'm working with are huge, from 3.5 to 5 million polygons, and I'm typically using more than 20 light sources for interiors, nor am I stingy with bump or reflection, so I'm definitely at the extreme end of the user bell curve here.

I agree that the radiosity quality is somewhat better in 3, but given the cost in rendering speed, I think this version may put us a little too deep into Dwight's Uncanny Valley. For all that, I do plan to upgrade, if only for the layer control.

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Thomas Holm — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:29:26 GMT

David wrote:
Testing the Artlantis 3 demo I'm afraid I have seen render times increase by an order of ten...

Thanks David, for letting us know!

Are you sure this isn't a settings issue? I kind of have a problem with Abvent pursuing render quality (where competition is fierce) at the expense of rendering speed (where they've had their marketing edge all along). Shooting themselves in their feet isn't what they want.

Of course it could be an issue of the 3.0 release not being fully optimized yet. They need the upgrade revenues. And I haven't had time for the demo, I like to rely on the advice of my peers 😉

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:41:45 GMT

For Dwight Atkinson "The Master" :
We would like to hear from your experience on this new release from artlantis.
anticipated thanks for any imput you may find..

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Dwight — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:34:30 GMT

Artlantis 3 a true enhancement of program function. I have spent little time with it so far since I am working on another project right now: a cook book.

Upgrade recommended. Keep Abvent alive in difficult times.

Lights: Variable light projection - still rudimentary, but i like where this is headed — adds realism to projected light like downspill on walls.

Layers: Can orchestrate visibility of elements. Never thought about needing it before, but feature is useful - results in list hierarchy - better order. Makes you think about making special view sets for 3D views prior to export, and organize 3D elements better.

Expert Rendering adjustments: Extreme settings can drive your pickup truck of rendering time into a mud filled ditch upside down, but permits delayed light energy decay and subtle luminosity effects most users will never use [enable "Display Expert" in General preferences.] Could easily spend a stormy weekend playing in settings dialog alone, sitting in basement motionless except for periodic removal of pants. I have no life except for eating.

New shader surfaces: Bad News: Generally a disappointment since new texture surfaces are superficial, weak. Good News: There's several.

Animated sky, etc: Yay, for passing-of-day studies, etc.

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

David Collins — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:17:20 GMT

Thomas wrote:
Are you sure this isn't a settings issue?

I actually can't remember the last time I was really sure of anything.

I did have the Art 3 radiosity set a low as possible (1 bounce + 1 bounce or something like) to try to approximate the Low radiosity setting in Art 2, but something else might be going on. Like I say, my current projects are way over the top, so I don't think my test runs are necessarily meaningful.

You should take some time with the demo and see how it works for you.

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:10:34 GMT

Dwight wrote:
I am working on another project right now: a cook book.

Impatient to read it…

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Thomas Holm — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:33:17 GMT

David wrote:
...You should take some time with the demo and see how it works for you.

Well, my projects are mostly small, so I guess Karl's findings may be more to the point for my use. Also, speed is more important than quality for me.

I am a bit disappointed by the new Artlantis version, though. None of my two main wishes for Artlantis were fulfilled:

I very often need to place the rendered model in a background photo, for the planning permit.

1. I'd like a hairline (or transparent hidden line) display option for the preview. It would make matching the model to the photo so much easier.

2. I'd like an option to use the Heliodon lighting and sky only for reflections, even when I have a background photo inserted (and no foreground).
Today, when rendering with the background on, Artl shows the background through in windows and glass reflecting surfaces. It's like the model gets transparent instead of reflecting, and it happens even if there are solid walls behind the windows in question. Sometimes looks very weird and totally out of place.

To avoid this issue, I have to either
- edit the background beforehand in Photoshop so there is nothing that can show through windows - a tedious process, or
- render twice, once with background on, one with it off, and combine the renders in Photoshop. Time consuming and almost as tedious!

If someone (Dwight??) has an easy workaround for this (I regard it as a bug) I'd be very happy! I'm always hoping it's my mistake, but no cure so far.

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Dwight — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:23:45 GMT

For photo alignment: Just an idea: with the new layer visibility feature - turn off walls, etc, until only a few things remain?

For reflected background: a sadly amateur problem for such a sophisticated application. I uses big images positioned to provide more plausible reflections just outside the camera view. You might make up a large billboard and keep it in the Catalog......

For Hollandaise Sauce: Finally, squeeze the halved lemon over the butter and egg mixture, crushing it in your fist. Catch the seeds between your fingers.

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:37:04 GMT

Dwight said: "I have spent little time with it so far since I am working on another project right now: a cook book."

Is work so bad you are thinking of changing professions?
Many people here, artists, actors, administrators, managers even architects are out of work and are opening restaurants, diners, street food vending wagons. It seems the food business is more resistant to the recession than construction or show business. My wife cooks good... I have even talked to her about the idea.
Maybe Ill need your book in the future. I hope the images are good and self explanatory

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Thomas Holm — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:59:35 GMT

Dwight wrote:
For photo alignment: Just an idea: with the new layer visibility feature - turn off walls, etc, until only a few things remain

Yep. I'd use that. Now I use the Invisible shader, but it doesn't always cut it.

For reflected background: a sadly amateur problem for such a sophisticated application.

Yes. I think there must be something wrong (amateurish?) with the reflection calculation algoritm when it makes items look transparent when they are not. Haven't tested that in Artl3 yet, though.

I uses big images positioned to provide more plausible reflections just outside the camera view.

Can do. But it's just another time-consuming workaround.

For Hollandaise Sauce: Finally, squeeze the halved lemon over the butter and egg mixture, crushing it in your fist. Catch the seeds between your fingers.

THAT is an idea I appreciate whole-heartedly!
But I'm wondering, I seem to recall that once in the old Archicad-Talk mail list days, you described some exotic dish from the far Canadian north, something I probably would not handle closer than with a ten-foot pole. (Guess it's conceptually similar to our surströmming [sour herring] which is rotten & canned fish) I don't remember its name. Will you include that in your cookbook?

Re: artlantis 3 and Archicad 12

Karl Ottenstein — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:40:54 GMT

Thomas wrote:
But I'm wondering, I seem to recall that once in the old Archicad-Talk mail list days, you described some exotic dish from the far Canadian north, something I probably would not handle closer than with a ten-foot pole. (Guess it's conceptually similar to our surströmming [sour herring] which is rotten & canned fish) I don't remember its name. Will you include that in your cookbook?

Wow, what a memory, Thomas! I think that was probably 8 years ago?

It was "muktuk" as I recall:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muktuk

and why nobody invites Dwight to potlucks! 🙂

Karl