topic Re: switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done t in Collaboration with other software

switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done this

Erika Epstein — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 21:52:30 GMT

I've been thinking of switching my windows XP from 32bit to 64 bit to get more from archicad. Has anyone done this and could share their experience, outline what is involved re other programs etc.?

On the few occasions over many years that I've reinstalled the OS and installed all new software its been days of effort.

Other than Archicad and Microsoft Office, do other programs have this choice or does one have to repurchase/pay some kind of upgrade type fee?

Would I be better if this machine can do it switching to Vista or 7?

Thanks in advance

Re: switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done t

Bricklyne Clarence — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:47:22 GMT

A few questions first:

1)Why do you want to switch from 32-bit to 64-bit?

Most people tend to switch because 64-bit OS do not have the 4GB Memory or RAM limitation that 32-bit OS have. So that way they can get as much RAM as they wish (8GB, 16GB or higher) and not be limited by how much Windows will limit or take advantage of. Additionally, 32-Bit Windows versions (both XP and Vista) don't really give you all 4GB of RAM even when you do have it, as about half of it is reserved for windows processes; so technically even with 4GB RAM you only have around 2GB or so available for your programs to use. But there's a work-around to this; more on that in a bit.

However, all this, (switching from 32Bit to 64Bit, and getting more RAM) only matters if the actual programs you plan on using will take advantage of more than 4GB of RAM, i.e are 64-Bit programs. 32-Bit programs cannot see more than 4GB (or what''s left over from Windows) of memory available, and so don't ever take advantage of it. So even using a 32Bit program in a 64bit OS is kind of pointless from the perspective of having more than 4GB of memory since the program will not take advantage of anything above the 4GB.

2) In the event that you don't plan on getting more than 4G of memory, have you considered getting a 4Gig switch for 32bit Windows?

Basically this will save you the trouble of re-installing OS's, and allow your programs to take advantage of pretty much all the memory you have even in a 32Bit environment. It's a component that circumvents 32Bit Windows' 2Gig memory limitation, and releases most of it to the programs available.

The reason I ask these questions has also to do with the fact that ArchiCAD (as of right now anyway - and which I assume is one of the reasons for a switch), is still a 32Bit application, and so would never gain you any advantage in switching from an 32Bit to 64Bit OS. In other words, it's not going to use more than 4GB of memory even in a 64Bit OS environment, and so if this is a primary reason for a switch, then as far as AC is concerned, it's kind of pointless, atm.
You might have noticed people have been begging Graphisoft to migrate ArchiCAD to a 64 Bit platform or at least allow for both options and frankly speaking, for a mult-core aware application like AC12, it's kind of retarded that it's still just a 32Bit app, even when Microsoft themselves have stated that they will be abandoning the 32Bit platform, and 32bit Windows in a couple of years; and more importantly even when most of their users are already migrating to 64Bit Windows, and getting more memory for their applications that are 64Bit - (including non-multicore aware competitor Revit, which is available in both 32bit and 64bit
versions).
Further to which, there are also other advantages of using a 64bit application in a 64Bit OS, beyond just the memory since there generally more resources available to the programs, and they're not constantly fighting with Windows for stability - i.e less crashes, faster. I'm currently using 64Bit Win7, and my 64bit applications just fly and are way more stable than the 32bit versions also in the same system.

Who knows, maybe we'll get lucky with AC13.

I should warn you though, that 64Bit Windows (XP, Vista and Win7), along with switching to them, do tend to have problems - primarily to do with hardware, and drivers not supported. So here is where there may be issues in switching - be sure to check that your components have 64Bit capable drivers first, otherwise the switch may be more of a headache than a benefit.

But in terms of what you'll have to go through, you'll inevitably have to re-install all your programs, since, the directory structure for 64Bit windows is different to the 32Bit version, and I don't really think you have to pay any upgrade fee for any of your programs unless you plan on getting 64Bit versions (and assuming that they don't already offer the option when installing to install as a 64-bit application - most programs will automatically detect a 64-bit system and prompt you to install the 64-bit version; if available).

Oh, and stay away from Vista - far faaar away- especially, if you have the option. Even though 64bit Vista is still more stable than the 32Bit version, I would still advise going with either 64bit Windows XP or preferably 64Bit Windows 7 (my choice). Vista is the reason Microsoft are so anxious to release Windows 7 as soon as they most possibly can.

Again, I repeat, 64Bit OS is NOT going to gain you any advantage (memory-wise, resource-wise) from ArchiCAD that you wouldn't already have with using ArchiCAD in a similar 32bit OS with a 4gig switch. Other programs (64Bit ones) may, but definitely not AC. So weigh that against any potential decision to upgrade and re-install everything all over again, along with all the hassle that comes along with it. ArchiCAD is not a 64-bit application, and unfortunately them's the breaks, until GS decides otherwise.

Re: switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done t

Bricklyne Clarence — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 23:10:27 GMT

I just noticed that you're on a Mac (MacPro maybe?) with OS10.5, which might suggest that you're having to use Windows through Parallels or Bootcamp perhaps?

That could also complicate things a little further since, as far as I remember, either one or both of those also limit the amount of resources available to to Windows, than are available to the Mac side. Despite the fact that Windows, as I've heard, runs much better on a Mac system than it does on a PC.

I do recall a friend of mine who was an a MacPro but was primarily running Windows on it, and his system was just a monster with everything blazing fast and smooth. He did have 8 cores and something like 20Gigs of Ram, and he was also pretty much exclusively running 64bit applications; so that may have had something to do with it, as well.
But I also recall that he also did have a lot of issue with drivers and programs simply not starting up or working correctly.

Re: switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done t

Erika Epstein — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 23:12:56 GMT

Wow what a great set of answers.
Yes, I was wanting to get more with AC than I do currently and thought 64 bit might be the way to go and that brought up the XP/Vista/7 quandary.

Thanks Bricklyne

Re: switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done t

Erika Epstein — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 23:21:49 GMT

Oops, just saw your second post. My desktop is a Dell XP SP3. When I replaced the desktop, at the beginning of last year I chickened out on the mac.
At the end of last year I needed to replace my laptop. I did with the mbp and haven't looked back. I've never even got round to installing a virtual pc, haven't needed it in the offices I work with.

I expect next time I replace the desktop it will also be with a mac. In the meantime, I have hit the ceiling with archicad a few times on it and was looking ahead to what I might do to improve this machine. I'll wait and see about 13 and check my other applications as well.

Re: switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done t

KeesW — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 11:22:17 GMT

Erika
We are running AC12 on Vista 64. Please check my postings for some further comments.

Re: switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done t

Anonymous — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 22:36:05 GMT

Going forward with your system, if you plan any upgrades, then yes move on to a 64bit OS. Mac OSX 10.4 and above is mostly 64 bit, and I believe with the new Snow Leopard (10.6) release that all of the core bits will be 64 bit. As far as to Windows, don't bother with XP 64bit. It is not very well supported by hardware folks. I would go to Vista 64bit or, even better; stick around a bit for the release of Windows7. It should be released to commercial stores by October 22nd of this year. It is a good bit less resource hungry than Vista, and plays nicely with less heavy-powered machines. In many test cases the speed is on par or better than XP is.
I will echo a number of the thoughts from Bricklyne Clarence above, that even if your OS is 64bit, if your application is only 32bit, you can't easily break that 4GB barrier. So if you do have 4GB or more of RAM, then you should have already upgraded. If you don't have 4GB or more, then it isn't pressing that you do so. Also, moving to a newer OS, 64bit or not, you need to check on if drivers are available for your gear. Most hardware manufacturers have gotten on board since Vista came into being, and the major ones (Intel, AMD/ATI, Nvidia, etc) are already in there for the Windows 7 Release Candidate.
If you want to play around with Windows 7 in bootcamp or parallels on you MBP, the current release candidate is free to download and try, but the license on it expires come June of 2010 (and it functionally ends on March of 2010). However that gives you a good deal of time to see if you like it or not. The links to download it (on Microsoft’s site) are at:
http://tinyurl.com/9agzvs

Re: switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done t

Erika Epstein — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 01:18:14 GMT

Thanks Data,
I've held of upgrading for the time being. I've started looking into what it will mean for all of my programs to upgrade.

Re: switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done t

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:04:39 GMT

Hello

Problem switching from 32 to 64 is all the printer driver. Many printers driver doesn't exist for 64.

Re: switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done t

ci-JoshOs — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:01:01 GMT

Make the switch to x64 now.
That way, you'll be ready as soon as a 64-Bit version is released.
Why would you want to be content with 32 bits less than others anyway?
64 is twice the size of 32(at least) so it must be good right?

Re: switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done t

Haneef Tayob — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 06:24:16 GMT

About 8 months ago, I decided to go for XP-64 bit after the dealer oddly gave me an option between the two XP's (I was hesitant to go for Vista 64-bit).

I did have some minor issues which I was able to deal with. I couldn't get my old faxmodem and canon scanner to work, but fortunately have other pc's in the office. Itunes had to be tweeked before installation in order to get my iPhone to work. My old PDF drivers were a problem and I had to ditch my old version of acrobat 7 pro drivers for some open source pdf drivers.

In my experience, Windows xp 64bit generally seems more stable and seldom requiring rebooting to clean the system.

I have no regret, especially with AC13 now being announced.

Re: switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done t

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 11:27:49 GMT

1) There is no reason not to go to 64bits (well there are few minor 64bit driver issues in some devices , so check before)
2) If you plan to go on 64bits just for Archicad, dont get into the trouble of reinstalling everything on your pc. You will get zero performance increase.
3) If you use programs that require intensive high precision arithmetic calculations and support 64bits then do the lift
4) If you use chess programs, then DEFINATELY do the lift (this is a characteristic example where you see more than 40% increase in performance (not due to memory ofcourse, but due to handling 64bit binary structures).
5) If you use Photoshop on very large images, then do it. It would help a lot.

Thats all.

Re: switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done t

Sols — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:23:52 GMT

Apart from the 4GB RAM limit, the other main reason for my switching to 64-bit was simply... it's going to be the standard sooner or later. I just made a big spreadsheet of all my installed apps & drivers. Then I spent a good half a day on the interweb checking and downloading 64-bit versions or updates of the drivers, and noting any 64-bit incompatibilities with my apps. Burned them all to a DVD and did a back-up... then just did it!

Sure, there will be at least a couple of things down the track that you smack your head and realise, crap, that doesn't work. But I never encountered anything that couldn't be solved. My worst incompatibility was discovering that my aging digital point-n-click camera (that I forgot about in the preparation) didn't have a 64-bit driver. Good excuse to go get another, better one though

Re: switch 32 bit to 64 bit, what is invovled, anyone done t

Richard Morrison — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 02:17:13 GMT

64-bit may not help your ArchiCAD much, as much as multi-core processors, but it can give you access to much more memory while multitasking. I have Vista Home Premium (64 bit) with an i7 processor and it generally has been very stable and works great with AC.

However, I did learn the hard way that many of my critical software programs (generally my tried and true ones that I've been using for years) don't work in x64. Also, I lost my scanning & faxing capabilities on my HP printer. As a result, I keep my old computer running, and access it through Remote Desktop, which is built into Vista. It was very easy to set up and works pretty well, but you'll find that printer sharing between 32 and 64 bit systems is difficult.