topic Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones in Collaboration with other software

Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Wokka — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 22:56:33 GMT

We have a large development with each room assigned an independant zone name and number. We also have (on another hidden layer) zones showing fire compartments. The schedule is calling up the fire compartment zone in most situations and not the correct real name. Is there a way to sort the schedule to reference only a particular catagorie of zone or some other filter method??

Cheers

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Link — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 00:14:16 GMT

If you find out, I am keen to get the answer too!

I've not yet found a way to assign a door (or any object) to a particular zone and it doesn't seem to work by layer visibility or zone category. We have room zones, GFA zones, GBA zones, etc, etc, and have yet to get the correct zones in our door schedule automatically.

AC seems to use the last placed zone, so one workaround is to close the schedule window, cut out all the room zones, past them back in their original positions, then reopen (regenerate) the schedule.

Let me know if it works for you too, not that it is the ultimate answer by any means.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Erika Epstein — Thu, 09 Dec 2010 22:07:54 GMT

Wokka,
If you have the different kind of zones each on separate layers, on the criteria tab if you specify the layer(s) either to include or layer(s) to exclude, would that not do what you are after?

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Link — Thu, 09 Dec 2010 23:58:25 GMT

Hey Erika

The door schedule is using the value of 'All Door Types' as the Element Type in its Criteria. There's no way to list which Zone its in, which is the problem.

Unless I'm missing something?

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 00:38:31 GMT

No direct experience with the multiple zone thing, but some memories of things I've read here...

If multiple zones occupy exactly the same space, then you cannot determine which zone a door/window (or other object) will claim it is in. (In GDL, though, you can query and get a list of every overlapping zone that the object is in.)

I recall someone posting that there is a relation between the physical zone volume (it is a 3D object with volume, even if you are using it as a 2D stamp for area calcs) and some anchor point of an object. So, if your differing zones - occupying the same space - do not need to be volumetric, but only for the area stamp and scheduling, you could try making them thin and placing them at different z-heights? Or, maybe the zone that you WANT for the doors has to be thick enough to encompass the door base or header or...

Just rambling...

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Erika Epstein — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 03:59:16 GMT

Link & Wokka,
- overlapping zones have always been a problem and AC isn't the only program with this problem.

-For some projects like a residence it's easy enough to move the heat/cool zones away a set distance leaving the room zones that also work for room names and get trimmed. For larger projects this may be messy, but perhaps less so than making new zones as link described.

-What about using a custom parameter to note the Fire Compartment area?

-getting archicad doors to read the right zone has been problematic at times. Stupid since smart parts and perhaps other doors have resolved this problem.

Link, you know the gang at GS, why don't you send them your Christmas wish list?

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

vfrontiers — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:34:14 GMT

I know I must be missing something... but I, too, have been faced with a similar issue. For me, it was SITE ZONES (living, garage, patio, etc) vs. ROOMS for zones.... I finally had to acquiesce and do the SITE ZONES as FILLS...

So, if you are NOT using the FIRE zones as ZONES (for listing / scheduling) then change the to FILLS (for display)... You can make up for the missing zones by adding FIRE as a PARAMETER of the ROOM ZONES such that several ROOM Zones will belong to FIRE GROUP 1, etc.

Of course this falls apart if a FIRE ZONE cuts ONE ROOM ZONE in half... but not sure if that's likely...

WISHLIST: Give SCHEDULES(and the objects they are listing) the power to

1. Belong to more than one ZONE (fine, make it so they belong to only ONE zone per ZONE CATEGORY)

2. Then allow schedules to isolate ZONES by the ZONE Category... So for Door Schedules, let them show all the ROOM Zones and for the Fire Plan let the schedule show all the FIRE ZONEs...

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

vfrontiers — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:36:43 GMT

Additional WISHLIST:

Make schedules / objects link to ZONES by ACTIVE LAYER... So if I want doors to be linked to ROOM ZONES, I simply turn off all other layers that have zones on them..

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

vfrontiers — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:39:18 GMT

BTW... you know in AC14, all the doors and window now have an OVERRIDE parameter that lets you set LOCATION to either the ZONE or some dumb text typed in a box...

I had to use this not because of overlapping zones, but because the darn doors would not read the only zone that was there..

Used to be if a WALL (that the door was in) touched more than one zone, the schedule could not read/display the room name.. I thought GS fixed that, but maybe not..

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Link — Fri, 10 Dec 2010 20:28:31 GMT

Erika wrote:
-getting archicad doors to read the right zone has been problematic at times. Stupid since smart parts and perhaps other doors have resolved this problem.

How have they resolved it?

I've already wished for (read: reported the issue) but I'm not sure if I've been a good enough boy this year to get it.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Anonymous — Sun, 12 Dec 2010 14:00:18 GMT

Wokka wrote:
Is there a way to sort the schedule to reference only a particular catagorie of zone or some other filter method??

A (painful but) workable workaround:
1- Create a new file, and hotlink the original file to it.
2- Put the zones you don't want to take into account on this new file.
3- Hotlink the new file into the original.
4- Delete the hotlink whenever you need to generate the maps.
5- Relink it when you need to document with the new zones.

What you can not do with this method is reading zones insides zones, which is essential for construction planning....

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Wokka — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 02:35:18 GMT

Thanks guys for all looking into this! In the end it was just easier to explode the fire compartment zones. I thought maybe I was missing something obvious ; )
Still, I'm also having issues with my door schedule picking up walls and curtain wall objects, even though I've filtered it to select only doors....??? I'll raise this in another thread when I get back to my machine..

Thanks again. Sounds like a good idea for a wish re the zones etc

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

KeesW — Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:19:52 GMT

Cadimage's Door and Window Builder schedules allow you to link door numbers to room numbers. Room numbers can be created with the Zone tool. For example, if room number is G23, doors into this room are automatically numbered G23A, G23B, ....etc. Would this solve the problem?

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Wokka — Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:58:41 GMT

Yeah, that sounds like it would be a good solution, as long as the door knows which zone to use. ie the room zone and not an overlapping fire zone.
Also, unfortunaltey, the office I'm in at the moment don't use cadimage, though I have my own full version at home.
Thanks for the info, I'll check it out on my pc...

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 01:10:36 GMT

The overlapping zones may still be a problem. This is one of several issues with zones that needs to get sorted.

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

KeesW — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 07:00:47 GMT

Surely fire zones would be turned off so that only room zones with room numbers are included when door schedules are generated?

I'll try it when I get back to work next week.

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Wokka — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:27:12 GMT

Yes something like that would be logical, but with archicad doors and zones, the assosciation is not logical...?

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:29:11 GMT

KeesW wrote:
Surely fire zones would be turned off so that only room zones with room numbers are included when door schedules are generated?

I'll try it when I get back to work next week.

Zone associations are not layer dependent. It wouldn't make much sense since the zone association needs to be persistent and layer states can change all the time.

It would be nice to have some way to do this though such as a way to create different zone types/classes, but this would require some serious thought as it could be quite complicated if not worked out properly. It strikes me as something that should be part of a larger overhaul of the zones in general.

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Barry Kelly — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 02:58:35 GMT

Matthew wrote:
Zone associations are not layer dependent. It wouldn't make much sense since the zone association needs to be persistent and layer states can change all the time.

Are you sure?
I have a text object with a moveable hotspot that shows the zone name of the zone that the hotspot is in.
If I add another zone (different name) in another layer then the object will switch to show the zone name depending which layer I have turned on.
If both ar on it seems to default to the first placed zone.

If I turn the layers of then no zone is detected at all.

I also notice just the other day when playing with exporting data to text files that zones in different layers will produce different outcomes depending which layer is active at the time the text file is generated.

Barry.

Re: Door Schedule using incorrect Zones

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 03:32:32 GMT

Barry wrote:
Matthew wrote:
Zone associations are not layer dependent. It wouldn't make much sense since the zone association needs to be persistent and layer states can change all the time.
Are you sure?
I have a text object with a moveable hotspot that shows the zone name of the zone that the hotspot is in.
If I add another zone (different name) in another layer then the object will switch to show the zone name depending which layer I have turned on.
If both ar on it seems to default to the first placed zone.

If I turn the layers of then no zone is detected at all.

I also notice just the other day when playing with exporting data to text files that zones in different layers will produce different outcomes depending which layer is active at the time the text file is generated.

Barry.

You're right. I was referring to doors and windows specifically. I probably should have been more clear about that.

Loose parts behave differently. I have used them to create alternate zone stamps for enlarged plans, RCPs, etc. and noticed this behavior. That's when I figured out that I had to make the actual zone stamp go away with the view options rather than the layers.