topic Re: Synchro in Collaboration with other software

Synchro

Steve Jepson — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:27:55 GMT

Is this what happened to Constructor ?

http://www.synchroltd.com/

Re: Synchro

SeaGeoff — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 05:06:39 GMT

No, it can be found here.

Re: Synchro

Steve Jepson — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:16:46 GMT

That link is for the old 2008 Constructor. There will be no 2009 or 2010 version of Constructor.

Thats why I ask if Syncro is why Vico has discontinued Constructor.
It looks a lot like it.

Perhaps Constructor is just on a different upgrade cycle. The ArchiCAD version it came with was always one version behind anyway.

Re: Synchro

Bricklyne Clarence — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:58:21 GMT

Steve wrote:
That link is for the old 2008 Constructor. There will be no 2009 or 2010 version of Constructor.

.......

The product features page highlights the features of a Vico Constructor 2009. And I highly doubt they would advertise Vico 2010 if the product doesn't exist yet, or is still in development.

Besides which, most of the features highlighted in the Constructor 2009 seem consistent with the flagship features of ArchiCAD 12 (Curtain Wall Tool, Multi-Core, Partial Features display etc etc). There are probably no AC13 features because as you noted Vico is usually a version behind ArchiCAD and secondly because there are likely no upgraded features of significance in AC13 that they would benefit from (apart for maybe 64-bit compatibility and CW tool improvements) - just goes to show you how "great" an upgrade AC13 was, with close to zero modelling tools improvements.

It's highly unlikely that Contractors and Vico users would benefit from the Teamwork 2.0 features.

And Synchro seems to be an entirely different product altogether. They were demonstrating it with Sketchup models and it seems geared toward that non-expert 3D modeling market niche of Construction engineers and Contractors who use basic Sketchup in getting to the 3D modeling world. Vico is not the only 4D/5D game in town.

Re: Synchro

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:18:56 GMT

Bricklyne wrote:
It's highly unlikely that Contractors and Vico users would benefit from the Teamwork 2.0 features.

Wrong again Brick, sorry.

Contractors and Vico users benefit hugely from TW2.

We have to model some pretty big buildings (currently on a 55.000m2 hospital), and using a 3 or 4 person team is a good way to do it.

TW2 functionality allow the team leader to assign roles on the go, and more importantly, make sure nobody introduces mistakes.

Even better, the ability to increase team size during modeling is a great way to make sure deadlines are met, so I would say that TW2 on ArchiCAD makes it, for now, the best modeling tool for contractors.

On that note, Constructor (which was ArchiCAD anyway) just disappeared, because VICO aims to be an open platform, allowing any model to be imported and linked.

Re: Synchro

SeaGeoff — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:36:55 GMT

Krippahl wrote:
On that note, Constructor (which was ArchiCAD anyway) just disappeared, because VICO aims to be an open platform, allowing any model to be imported and linked.

But doesn’t (didn’t) Constructor add significant construction oriented features to ArchiCAD, like the whole recipe thing? I understand from a North American standpoint the business rationale behind opening the Vico products to Revit models. But is seems a shame to abandon Constructor.

Re: Synchro

Bricklyne Clarence — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:46:16 GMT

Krippahl wrote:
Bricklyne wrote:
It's highly unlikely that Contractors and Vico users would benefit from the Teamwork 2.0 features.
Wrong again Brick, sorry.

Contractors and Vico users benefit hugely from TW2
........
On that note, Constructor (which was ArchiCAD anyway) just disappeared, because VICO aims to be an open platform, allowing any model to be imported and linked.

I wasn't looking for an argument Krippahl; I was merely confirming that Constructor 2009 does indeed exist as per the VICO website (here) in the product features list. The original poster was unaware as to whether or not there would be a Constructor 2009 or 2010. While I don't know about 2010 and while the ViCo website mentions nothing about discontinuing that particular product line (as far as I could tell), you can confirm the Constructor 2009 but for yourself by visiting the website.

And regarding the TW2.0 usefulness for contractors it's kind of a moot point either way isn't it? It doesn't exist in the current version of Constructor (2009) and Graphisoft have hardly marketed it as a tool beneficial to Contractors and neither have Vico (since they ostensibly don't have it in their Constructor version yet - Constructor always being a version behind the current ArchiCAD version). How you're using it in Constructor therfore is beyond me.

Re: Synchro

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:05:41 GMT

Geoff wrote:
But doesn’t (didn’t) Constructor add significant construction oriented features to ArchiCAD, like the whole recipe thing? I understand from a North American standpoint the business rationale behind opening the Vico products to Revit models. But is seems a shame to abandon Constructor.

The new way VICO works is much more logical. You model wherever, and then link outside the modeler.

I think Constructor was a dead end, as soon as VICO split from GS.

Re: Synchro

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:18:18 GMT

Bricklyne wrote:
And regarding the TW2.0 usefulness for contractors it's kind of a moot point either way isn't it? It doesn't exist in the current version of Constructor (2009) and Graphisoft have hardly marketed it as a tool beneficial to Contractors and neither have Vico (since they ostensibly don't have it in their Constructor version yet - Constructor always being a version behind the current ArchiCAD version). How you're using it in Constructor therfore is beyond me.

Things being beyond you is not news.

I am not using Constructor, because Constructor does not exist any more.

I am using ArchiCAD, which is the new way VICO Office Suite works: by importing models from various modelers (Revit, Tekla and ArchiCAD for now, other to come soon).
http://www.vicosoftware.com/products/Vico-Office/tabid/85286/Default.aspx

And TW2 makes ArchiCAD a choice modeler for construction companies, because it gives them the power to model very big buildings on a tight schedule.

So, the point is not moot, and stating that "It's highly unlikely that Contractors and Vico users would benefit from the Teamwork 2.0 features." stems either from ignorance or purposeful disinformation.

Re: Synchro

Bricklyne Clarence — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:39:47 GMT

Krippahl wrote:
......
Things being beyond you is not news.

I am not using Constructor, because Constructor does not exist any more.

.............
So, the point is not moot, and stating that "It's highly unlikely that Contractors and Vico users would benefit from the Teamwork 2.0 features." stems either from ignorance or purposeful disinformation.

Okay Krippahl, You're Right. Is that what you want to hear?

I stated that according to the ViCo website, (here in full : http://www.vicosoftware.com/products/vico_constructor/features_and_benefits/tabid/84570/Default.aspx) a Constructor 2009 exists, and provided a link showing so. I also stated that according to that same page which lists the features, that same Constructor version does not have Teamwork 2.0.

According to the link I provided (here again!!!), how is any of the information I listed above, purposeful disinformation, ignorance or inaccurate? If the ViCo website is wrong then isn't the misinformation and error on their part and not mine? I did not misrepresent or lie about what is in that website, so what exactly is your problem with my post?

But like I said before I'm not looking for a fight with you.
So You're right. You're always right. Maybe that's what you want to hear.

Are we good now?

Re: Synchro

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:09:55 GMT

My beef is with your certainty on "It's highly unlikely that Contractors and Vico users would benefit from the Teamwork 2.0 features.", which was the stepping stone used for your old favorite "just goes to show you how "great" an upgrade AC13 was, with close to zero modelling tools improvements".

As I explained carefully, TW2 is a very powerful feature to Contractors and VICO users, who are using ArchiCAD to model.

If you have a different opinion, namely if you maintain that TW2 is of no use whatsoever to them, then please share with us the reasons for getting to that conclusions, besides a link to a VICO product.

Seems to me more productive than pouting..

Re: Synchro

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:22:01 GMT

I know at least one major contractor who is interested in the potential for TW2. From my experience coordinating large construction projects I feel certain that properly implemented TW2 could be HUGE for this purpose. This does not mean that it will overcome Revit in the marketplace but it does at least open up some interesting opportunities.

Re: Synchro

Bricklyne Clarence — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 23:18:40 GMT

Krippahl wrote:
My beef is with your certainty on "It's highly unlikely that Contractors and Vico users would benefit from the Teamwork 2.0 features.",
................

If you have a different opinion, namely if you maintain that TW2 is of no use whatsoever to them, then please share with us the reasons for getting to that conclusions, besides a link to a VICO product.

Seems to me more productive than pouting..

First of all, who's pouting? I just told you that I didn't want to get into some sort of belligerent thing over all this with you, seeing as that's the attitude you seem to approaching all this with and I couldn't possibly be any less interested in that kind of a discussion.

Secondly, YOU were the one that stated categorically that Constructor was dead. All I did was provided a link to the developer's website stating otherwise (at least as far as the 2009 version is concerned). Again, nowhere does the website state that they are discontinuing the product in favor of ViCo suite, which I also stated.

These are all FACTS.

So again I ask you where did I lie, misinform or post an ignorant statement? If the website is posting incorrect information, - which may well be the case, if what you say is true - is that my mistake or the developer's error? You have yet to answer these questions in your continuing relentless attacks.

As for my statement regarding TW2, and its viability to contractors, that was my OPINION based on my knowledge of the local construction industry contractors, users and their work coordination habits.

OPINION.

You know what those are? We're still allowed those, right?
Do you know what the difference is between OPINIONS and FACTS?

AND it was an OPINION based on the Industry practices and market state in my locality where Revit and the Autodesk Revit and Autodesk Architecture Suites are the dominating Industry standards. Where the rest of the Construction Industry is less apt to adopt BIM and integrated design and documentation methodologies thanks in large part to Autodesk's efforts at splintering and compartmentalizing the various AEC fields - to suit their branding marketing strategy. And where thanks to the highly litigious (Lawsuits and Liability) nature of not just the North American Industry but N.American culture in general, you would be hard-pressed to convince contractors, engineers and other AEC consultants to adopt such a methodology, workflow and software that de-consolidates responsibility (in the Teamwork way with an integrated single model) in the effort of shoring up integration and coordination the way BIM workflow and software does.

Those are some of the reasons on which I based that OPINION.

I'm not exactly certain how the Iberian construction industry works but you're not likely to hear me correcting you on any OPINIONS you offer regarding the Portuguese Construction Industry practices and market. Probably because I'm not knowledgeable enough about how it works there. But that's just me.

Oh and one another thing. When someone makes a statement that "It's highly UNLIKELY that A, B, C or D will happen...." like I did in the original statement, that usually tends to denote POSSIBILITY and not a "certainty" as you are accusing me of stating. It's a small semantic and probably pedantic point but it's an important one nonetheless. Especially, since it likely would have clued you in to the fact that it was presented as an OPINION and not a FACT (or certainty), and probably saved us both all this nonsense.

Krippahl wrote:
........ which was the stepping stone used for your old favorite "just goes to show you how "great" an upgrade AC13 was, with close to zero modelling tools improvements".

.......Really?
Since you brought it up, name me one major modelling Tool upgrade in ArchiCAD 13.
And not something that was actually introduced in ArchiCAD 12 (half-baked) only to be completed in this version (Curtain Wall tool being the obvious candidate here.). Not Documentation tools, Not interface improvements or additions, not under-the-hood improvements like 64-bit and Multicore awareness - Modelling tools. Just one.

I'll start you off:
ArchiCAD 10 had Complex profile manager - a major modelling tool upgrade,
ArchiCAD 12 had the Curtain Wall Tool, -a major modelling tool upgrade, ArchiCAD 13 had............????

Even Graphisoft were careful in the wording of their AC13 marketing talking about "Productivity" improvements as opposed to new modelling tools.

(Note that I didn't include AC11 for the simple reason that their stated major modeling tool improvement for that version was Curved Complex profiles, which is really just a completion of a tool they introduced in AC10 and not a new tool to any stretch or degree. Same thing should apply new Major tools you name for AC13)

Just one.

Re: Synchro

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 00:29:33 GMT

Brick
It would be nice if you came onto the forum and helped users solve problems
more with less ranting.
Just my OPINION.
Mr Draw

Re: Synchro

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:40:39 GMT

I will post some more thoughts against my better judgment, but hey, it's that special season and even trolls have to eat.

Stating that ArchiCad's Teamwork 2.0 has no interest whatsoever to Contractors and VICO users (not your localized market contractors and VICO users, mind, but all of them, as was implied in your original post), and extrapolating from there that AC13 upgrade, because of it's lack of new modeling tools, is not a great product, is plain wrong. In fact, it could not be wronger.

This is why:

- VICO Office Suite imports models from various sw, for now ArchiCAD, Revit and Tekla. This was a strategic move from VICO (dumping it's own modeler, Constructor), and allows them to get into a bigger market - namely, the USA market where Autodesk has a choking hold over the industry and the governments. I think this will be a good thing for ArchiCAD, because more people will realize that the competition modeler is not up to hype, and they will come into contact with ArchiCAD generated models.

- Models developed by contractors, for coordination, planning and management purposes, differ somewhat from designer models. Their prime objective is not to produce documentation, but produce localized quantities. On the other hand, it is not a model that suffers as many changes as a design model, because usually the design is finished when the modeling begins.

- There is no contractors oriented modeling software out there, so they have to use sw that was developed for designers. ArchiCAD has a huge advantage there, because of it´s flexibility. It s not locked into some dumb family system, it is not plagued with relationships that bog down the model the bigger it gets

- The ROI in construction models is bigger the bigger the building is. Therefore, the modeling software has to be able to handle big models. Big models means teams of modelers, because of the tight time frame.

- Big models also mean big files, so multicore capability (for fast saves) and 64bits (for lots of RAM) is a very big advantage.

So, from the contractor and VICO point of view, here is what is great about ArchiCAD:
1- Lets you compare different versions of the same drawing from where you are modeling - trace reference.
2- Allows for very personalized work flows.
3- Handles big files (better now with 64bits from AC13).
4- Allows for very fluid teamwork (better now with TW2 from AC13).

What ArchiCAD 13, on your words, doesn't give to contractors and VICO users:
1- New modeling tools. They don't care, the existing ones are more than enough for coordination, planning and management purposes.

So, it is easy to see that AC13 is a very real and exciting product for contractors, more so because of it's productivity improvements: 64 bits and TW2. The alleged lack of modeling tools, well, we could not care less, the ones that exist are more than enough thank you.

Finally, I would like to point out that these opinions stem from 2 years of intensive experience with VICO software, modeling big buildings for contractors on Constructor and ArchiCAD, and not on reading a specific web page. That is why I thought it could be interesting for others to share with.

Now please feel free to go off in a tangent and run away from the specific subject we are discussing: ArchiCAD13 from the Contractor and VICO user point of view.

Re: Synchro

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:28:51 GMT

Miguel, you're giving away all our secrets 😉

How do you find Vico to be with very large models?

I recently imported the entire model for a 45,000sm hospital (ARCH, STRUCT & MEP) into Navis which it handled quite easily. I'm hoping to try something similar with Solibri over the holidays. IFC export may be a bit of a barrier though for something this large. Took too long the last time I tried. Don't know if it ever would have completed (the old Turing problem). Maybe 13 will do better.

Re: Synchro

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:22:35 GMT

The secret is not knowing how it can be done, but being able to do it (as many people who payed for BIM consultants found out the hard way).

I have not tried the new VICO Office Suite on a very large model yet.
On the 20.000m2 office building it did all right.
On the 55.000m2 Hospital it is good, but the model does not include MEP yet.

If all goes according to planning, next month I will tell you how it went.
Thing with VICO is that, unlike Solibri, you don't have to export the model from ArchiCAD in IFC format, so it should be easier.

Re: Synchro

Erika Epstein — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 00:00:37 GMT

Krippahl wrote:
I have not tried the new VICO Office Suite on a very large model yet.
On the 20.000m2 office building it did all right.
On the 55.000m2 Hospital it is good, but the model does not include MEP yet.

Would you care to elaborate on 'all right' and 'good'?
What worked and didn't work well and why?

Re: Synchro

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:45:33 GMT

What horsepower Mac or PC is needed to bring moderate size models into Vico?

Re: Synchro

Djordje — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:03:57 GMT

Matthew wrote:
Miguel, you're giving away all our secrets 😉

Yeah, so is Michael Schumacher when he talks about driving ... 😉