topic Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline in Collaboration with other software

ArchiCAD to Timberline

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:50:08 GMT

Does anyone have any experience with getting useful estimating information out of Timberline using a ArchiCAD 8.1 model. We are looking at new accounting/estimating software, and I am hoping to get a handle on how much effort is involved in getting numbers that mean anything. Is it easier than writing property scripts for everything I want estimated?

Or, are there any other really good options out there?

Any help with this would be great.

Thanks,
Joe

ArchiCAD 8.1v2 MacOS 10.2.8

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Steve Jepson — Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:58:26 GMT

Great topic. I would also like to know more about using ArchiCAD and the Timberline CAD integrator and e-planTakeOff.

http://www.timberline.com/industry/comm-industrial/estimating/applications/cad_integrator.aspx

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Anonymous — Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:49:14 GMT

"Steve Jepson" wrote:
Great topic. I would also like to know more about using ArchiCAD and the Timberline CAD integrator and e-planTakeOff.

I recently had a demo of timberline done by the distributer in my office, and asked this very question. His answer was, technically yes, but in practice no. He suggested it was easier to get the data from show element information or calculate. This was just his opinion and maybe it was just his lack of knowledge on how to operate the program. I personaly would love someone to come up with a QS API where you could easily do estimates and quotes.

Richard.

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Aaron Bourgoin — Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:42:44 GMT

I have had similar experiences here in Canada. I don't think Timber line HQ is doing a great job of promoting the technology to their consultant dealer network. I haven't found anyone at a local level who can tell me much about it. Quite the other way round, they want to see how its done.

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 29 Sep 2004 01:47:45 GMT

I'd also like to hear about any actual experiences. Looking through the Timberline web site's limited info and screenshots, it looks to me as though using the Calculate menu (and appropriate property scripts) and exporting to a database could be just as much, if not less, work. Neither eliminates the possibility for user error... but perhaps Timberline has a mechanism to check for any elements that aren't included in the take-off and to point them out graphically. Can't do that with native AC.

Karl

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Oct 2004 03:30:36 GMT

I guess the real question is do you really want to turn the designer/Architect into an estimatior?And from my Professional experience the answer is NO.All esimating packages should be independent of the deign/Model package.The interfacing program ie,spreadsheet/database,will allow for data to be manipulated and extrapolated and error checking,efficiency ,cost,analysis etc,etc, prior to exporting toTimberline,databuild,ordering,accounting etc.We successfully export quants, data and analysis from vectorworks,and the program is flexible enough for estimators,schedulers,administrators etc, to use it and run scripts to check drawing/build integrity,You see we don't rely only on the 3D Model ,I developed the process of QUESTIMATING ,It has revolutionized the way in which we design,build and work .Sorry to say ,your solutions aren't real using this program?

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Erika Epstein — Sat, 09 Oct 2004 01:00:52 GMT

Has anyone talked with Kurt Ameringer (hope I got your last name correct)?
In his talks for Graphisoft he's mentioned using Timberline for costing on a project so he would know the process

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Link — Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:38:02 GMT

I submitted a report to Viktor Bullain (GS Architectural Representative, similar to Kurt) about this topic, very early this year. A firm I was working with was considering using IFC & the RCC template system in an attempt to get information out to Timberline.

Anyone using AC in the US can go to ArchiCAD (8+) \ArchiCAD Templates\Additional Templates\RCC Estimating Template and read the documentation there.

The conclusion of my report was that the process was so fraught with problems that it was too impractical to use. I recall one of the biggest problems was that only a select amount of ArchiCAD elements would accept the IFC definitions. Anyway, the company quickly dropped the idea and returned their CAD Templates to their own standards. It was quite a painful exercise to be brutally honest, but I'm sure Rich Creveling & GS have improved it since.

Hope that helps (somehow)!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Erika Epstein — Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:19:07 GMT

Good to have you back Link
We were getting worried

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:33:55 GMT

Link wrote:
It was quite a painful exercise to be brutally honest...

Yes, welcome back, Link! 😉

Don't know about any new improvements, since 9.0 ships with the same files.

Reading through the "Rcc Favorites Library User Guide", particularly page 26 ... it sounds like the "RCC Uniformat Database", which is essential to the IFC/Timberline integration, is not included and presumably must be purchased from RCC. Is that right?

Karl

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Link — Thu, 21 Oct 2004 03:56:24 GMT

Sorry about my dealy Karl!

This was all in place before I got there, but I think you are correct - I think the RCC Uniformat Database must be purchased from RCC.

Tell me, won't all this be redundant with Graphisoft Estimator 2005?

http://www.graphisoft.com/company/press_zone/constructionpr.html

Looking forward to reading your reply mate.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 21 Oct 2004 05:16:28 GMT

No problems, Link. Thanks for getting back to me.

Link wrote:
Tell me, won't all this be redundant with Graphisoft Estimator 2005?

The details are sketchy yet, but, no, I'm not sure that Estimator will be the answer for ArchiCAD users requiring cost estimates from the way I read the pre-release information.

I think that the Calculate menu concept with property object association, components, descriptors, etc. was a clever concept that was unfortunately implemented in a way only a geek could love. Richard Morrison was kind enough to share his experience (offline) with generating information from Chief Architect, and the interface sounds like such a breath of fresh air after the Calculate menu that I've downloaded the demo to get a better look (but haven't had time to look at it yet).

I think AC still needs the ability to generate BOM and financial information, but in a way that is MUCH simpler than now, and much simpler than it appears will be the case with Estimator.

Going a little off the Timberline topic... 😉 But, the Calc menu has driven me crazy from day one when I realized that composites were simply a bunch of fills, and had no other inherent information associated with each skin.

Karl

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Link — Thu, 21 Oct 2004 05:24:24 GMT

But, the Calc menu has driven me crazy from day one when I realized that composites were simply a bunch of fills, and had no other inherent information associated with each skin.

Me too! ........ plus it added to the confusion that surrounds the entire menu!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:31:34 GMT

Hey there everyone...thanks for all the replies! Unfortunately, the boss decided that "automated" estimating was a luxury that we didn't need. But the talk about the Timberline dealers not knowing about the CAD integrator is right. My sales guy came out and we did manage to do a take-off on a 10'x10' house. The only problem I saw, besides a TON of set-up, both in ArchiCAD and Timberline, was that roofs came through as flat slabs, so taking off shingles didn't look like it was working.

As for the comment about the Architect not/shouldn't do estimates...we are also the general contractor on all our projects...so for us it is kind of important to have an idea of how much it's going to cost.

I would say that the way Timberline and ArchiCad work together right now...in my rather uninformed opinion, it seems easier to just set up properties for all the model elements and pull a quantity take-off. Then throw that in an excel spreadsheet or some such thing. Of course, I am the kind of geek that has all ready figured out the Calculations menu. For me it's more likely I will stop upgrading ArchiCAD when they change the Calc menu so none of my current properties work

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Erika Epstein — Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:32:02 GMT

About a year ago I saw at my resellers a preview of a cost estimator add-on(?) by Ferenc Lazar. If I am not mistaken he was targeting smaller buildings/projects. It looked really good.

Ferenc?

Re: ArchiCAD to Timberline

Anonymous — Fri, 05 Nov 2004 16:32:07 GMT

Is there anyone out there actually using the RCC template and the IFC with Timberline?