topic Re: CADImage Door and Window Builder in Collaboration with other software

!Restored: CADImage Door and Window Builder

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 15:51:46 GMT

So I went to a seminar with Rex Maximillian- he mentioned door and window builder- and I think he suggested buying it. But, I was part of a webinar from ArchVista last week on ArchiCAD add ons and they said that they cannot recomend door an window builder-
I am interested in purchasing it, but now I have two opposite opinions on it.

And other opinions are appreciated!
Thanks.

Re: Cgraph Door and Window Builder

Chazz — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:22:16 GMT

Door and window builder (DWB) is by cadimage tools not Cgraph (what the heck is Cgraph?).

People feel differently about these add on things. They allow you to create stuff that you could never do with AC out of the box but they reduce the portability of your files and require maintenance and upkeep. I have used DWB (and lots of other cadimage tools) for years and love it but it's no fun when you need to upgrade it ($) or share your project with someone who does not own it.

Re: Cgraph Door and Window Builder

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:39:46 GMT

Cgraph- is actually Cigraph, and it is another plug in or add on site.

You're right, I meant Cadimage. Thanks for the correction.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Re: Cgraph Door and Window Builder

Anonymous — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 21:13:09 GMT

I have used DWB for the past 5 years, and apart from the points Chazz has made I think it is a fantastic product. It is so much more versatile that the standard AC doors and windows, and once you get used to the multitude of parameters (and realise that there are only so many of them that you have to alter once you have the basics set) it really makes creation of doors and windows easy. You can have almost any configuration, curves, slopes, repeating patterns, curtain walls, internal and external glazing, any level of detail you want, internal and external trims, facings and sills, all with one "object". Having recently started with a company who sometimes use AC doors for interior doors, I'm slowly changing them all over to DWB doors.

It may be an advantage to us that we are in the same time zone as CadImage, but I'd see this as a minor consideration.

Re: Cgraph Door and Window Builder

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:51:35 GMT

We have used D&W Builder for a while too. I would recommend it over AC standard parts, but would warn that the ramifications of the "new GS yearly update" are not just financial (buying upgraded add-ons each time AC updates) but "resource draining". Updates to add-on seldom are available when AC upgrades occur, they need to be installed separately, and (worst case - which has happened) you need to run updaters to your old files that contain D&W Builder parts - and you guessed it - this part isn't as smooth as you might have hoped. So by all means go ahead, but be aware of some of the pitfalls...

Re: Cgraph Door and Window Builder

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:32:59 GMT

You're absolutely right about the update process to current projects, Robert, but the process seems to have become a lot simpler with recent releases. When DWB first came out in it's current format (was that with AC9?) it was quite a mission to convert them, and you still had to fiddle with bits to get what you wanted. Whether or not Cadimage intend another major upgrade is anybody's guess though. I haven't heard anything. And as Cadimage are the Archicad resellers in NZ they tend to hold back the release of new AC versions here until they have add-ons completed too, which usually means we get AC a month or so later than the rest of the world, but at least the tools work, making the transition a little smoother.

Re: CADImage Door and Window Builder

KeesW — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:07:43 GMT

We've been using Cadimage Door and Window Builder from its beginnings, and its predecessor by Theometric since 1998. They are excellent products. The drafmanship is emaculate and scheduling is particularly good and versatile. Yes, there is now a regular upgrade cost.

We haven't used the standard ArchiCad 11 Door and Window modules enough to compare them - they have improved greatly and might do everything you need - except schedules which are definitely inferior to CadImage's products.

Re: CADImage Door and Window Builder

Chazz — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 17:40:34 GMT

KeesW wrote:
....and scheduling is particularly good and versatile......the standard ArchiCad 11 Door and Window...have improved greatly and might do everything you need - except schedules which are definitely inferior to CadImage's products.

Really? To my mind the best schedules are those built using Interactive Schedules (IS) which is something that DWB is at a surprising loss to do. In fact, the inability of DWB to play nice (hate that expression) with IS is the #1 drawback of DWB. Yes, you can schedule the basics (size, location, etc) of DWB doors and windows with IS but you CANNOT schedule all of the minutia you spent so much time getting just right: things like frame dimensions, leaf sizes, thresholds, hardware, bla bla bla. All that info is in there but it is invisible to IS. You can read about my frustrations with this here

The DWB schedules are OK in their way but the fact that are not interactive and do not update automatically is a fatal flaw IMHO.

Re: CADImage Door and Window Builder

KeesW — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:08:39 GMT

Chazz
I've not used Interactive Schedules - shows how little I really know about it! I do know that CadImage DW shedulers are better than AC11's but didn't say that they were perfect!

Re: CADImage Door and Window Builder

Chazz — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:41:56 GMT

KeesW wrote:
Chazz. I've not used Interactive Schedules - shows how little I really know about it! I do know that CadImage DW shedulers are better than AC11's but didn't say that they were perfect!

Kees, I'm not sure how you could make the argument that CadImage DWB schedules are "better" than homemade AC11 door/window Interactive schedules if you have not used the latter. IS is the backbone of tabular data extraction in ArchiCAD. How the heck are you scheduling all the other stuff (appliances, equipment, furniture, etc etc) if not with IS?

Getting back on topic, I would say that if Jess needs excruciatingly detailed, controllable schedules that update automatically, DWB is not the tool for him. Stick with the built-in library or get one of the other after market libraries out there.

Re: CADImage Door and Window Builder

Rob — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 00:08:21 GMT

Kees, I'm not sure how you could make the argument that CadImage DWB schedules are "better" than homemade AC11 door/window Interactive schedules if you have not used the latter.

Chazz,
I have to support Kees here, simple because the current IS can not do properly what DWB can, and that is - drawn schedules. I would say this is the major drawback of IS at the moment.

Yes, DWB schedule is not biderectional, however it does deliver as oppose to IS which is a nice idea (talking about scheduling in general) however it is utterly useless in terms of opening schedules.

AFAIK, the drawn D/W schedule is essential for (at least) Scandinavians, AUS, NZ and UK.

Talking about DWB - I have stopped using it because of the problems with new versions of AC. Also, whilst appreciating Cadimage efforts to 'fill the gap' I do not like their ruthless approach towards a smooth AC integration, creating dummy layers, attributes, fixed folders etc. I think they are putting too much 'creativity' into it resulting in a bloody mess and problems with upgrades. They should really keep a low profile with AC resources handling and integrate DBW without interfering too much.

Re: CADImage Door and Window Builder

Chazz — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:32:11 GMT

Rob wrote:
Chazz, I have to support Kees here, simple because the current IS can not do properly what DWB can, and that is - drawn schedules. I would say this is the major drawback of IS at the moment.

I sense an Australian conspericy brewing here, the southern hemisphereians ganging up on us poor yanks with brains addled from reading too many election/political blogs. ....

As I'm sure you know, the Interactive Scheduler absolutely will do drawn opening schedules (if by that you mean elevational views of the openings). No, it will not dimension the openings but it does give you a picture and the proverbial 1000 words. For me, the convenience of keeping my schedules live and bidirectionally editable is worth the cost of losing the dimension strings which, given that the sizes are already provided in the table, is mostly redundantly redundant. Yes, it's nice when grids, muntins, mullions, transoms, handsets, etc are dimensioned separately.

I agree that IS could be better but what I really want is DWB to work better with IS.

Re: CADImage Door and Window Builder

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:32:29 GMT

I can agree with the wish for better integration of DWB w/ IS. I have DWB but we have been trying not to use it for the same reasons as Rob suggests and the fact that we will now need to fork out more money each upgrade to keep current.
We put a lot of time into making favs of the std units and using IS. We don't show drawn elevations so that's one issue aside for us. What does kill me is the lack of options available in the std. lib.
At the moment i need to show a simple door with 2 sidelights and an elliptical transom. No part has this. But i can find references to each missing part of the code in two similar parts, just not one that has it all.
so I'll build one in DWB, stick a hidden part with my listing parameters in it off to the side so my sched works. All in less time than it took me to type this.
THIS is why we need a better DWB INSIDE AC!!!

Re: CADImage Door and Window Builder

Rob — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 06:01:49 GMT

THIS is why we need a better DWB INSIDE AC!!!

I think this is the essence of DWB blunder.
You can not make a successful add-on without a proper integration into the main engine and eventually all little odds and sods will mount up and they become a major issue with upgrading as it is now...

I sense an Australian conspericy brewing here, the southern hemisphereians ganging up on us poor yanks with brains addled from reading too many election/political blogs. .

Oh, don't start... your silly election campaigns take at least 10 minutes of everyday news... as the most famous American says - booooring, where are my donuts?...

As I'm sure you know, the Interactive Scheduler absolutely will do drawn opening schedules (if by that you mean elevational views of the openings). No, it will not dimension the openings but it does give you a picture and the proverbial 1000 words. For me, the convenience of keeping my schedules live and bidirectionally editable is worth the cost of losing the dimension strings which, given that the sizes are already provided in the table, is mostly redundantly redundant. Yes, it's nice when grids, muntins, mullions, transoms, handsets, etc are dimensioned separately.

apart from all of this we need to show dimensioned sills for windows. Also, another shortcoming of IS is that it will list all openings separately, so if you had a window as a composite of different library parts (eg complicated shape etc) you're stuffed as it will not be listed under one opening. (as oppose DWB that allows you to designs really complicated geometries)
However, this goes into questions about the obsolete design of openings creation relying on sort of one-off GDL lib part.... but that is a different cup of tea.

Re: CADImage Door and Window Builder

Eduardus van Uden — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:06:29 GMT

I have used DW Builder since it was a Theometrics product and think it is great, particularly the latest version. Saving preferences as txt files makes it very easy to duplicate styles from previous projects and the new schedule is fantastic. Once the schedule filters are set up all joinery schedules can be updated with a single click. I have now set this up in my template. It means that providing I give the windows and doors the right ID code, the schedules will update with interior and exterior joinery, or joinery on different stories separated and will exclude empty openings etc, making first carefully selecting the correct ones a thing of the past. I highly recommend DW Builder and use it exclusively.

Re: CADImage Door and Window Builder

Anonymous — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 02:12:38 GMT

Hi Robert – We are sorry to hear you have stopped using Door & Window Builder. Yes, there have been issues in the past, but we have worked hard to fix these issues so don’t give up on us!

Chazz – Sharing projects is now a lot easier than in previous versions. Anyone can download the library for free. Feel free to approach us if you need anything.

Re: CADImage Door and Window Builder

Rob — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 03:05:44 GMT

Dear Cadimage support,

I know you do try hard, however being in the position of an add-on developer you have to heavily rely (fortunately or unfortunately - cross out what is unappropriated ) on GS and that is essential. You need to 'plug yourself in' as seamlessly as you can for everyone's benefits (including you). And that includes abandoning your naughty habits creating special attributes and messy folder file structure that makes a hellish experience for AC admin.
Also, your creativity should 'hit' the IS use as it has been already mentioned before. Knowing a bit about GDL programming you can simple register your listing variables with the subtype in order to access them from IS along with your drawn schedules.
Sometimes, the excessive flexibility creates absolute mess overkilling something that should be a simple and straightforward process, perhaps.

...and I have not ever given up on anyone unless they have given up on themselves... ooh, that's heavy...