topic Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade? in Collaboration with other software

what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 01:55:52 GMT

We have secured a large residentail project with a complex facade. The concept was modelled in Rhino but we have committed to deliver a full BIM project. Think of a wellington boot with a scolloped top and an inverted crease in the front and you get the picture. I am not sure Revit 2009 or Archicad v12 can handle this facade (we use both) and we may have to consider Generative Components or Digital Project but do not have the user base or the time.

Our Struc/MEP consultants are using Revit 2009 but transfer via IFC is still an option as we have a large ArchiCad user base. Doing the facade in 3DMax/Rhino/Cinema4D etc is not an option. Would appreciate your feedback.
HM

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 02:01:00 GMT

Depending on how the façade is modulated you might be able to use the curtainwall tool in ArchiCAD. The alternatives of custom parts in ArchiCAD or custom families in Revit are probably both possible but daunting. The devil is in the details.

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:57:44 GMT

A pisture will be of great help in understanding your question!

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Dwight — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:34:17 GMT

pisture = what a Canadian draws in the snow late on Saturday night.

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Djordje — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:24:56 GMT

Harry

Harry wrote:
We have secured a large residentail project with a complex facade. The concept was modelled in Rhino but we have committed to deliver a full BIM project. Think of a wellington boot with a scolloped top and an inverted crease in the front and you get the picture. I am not sure Revit 2009 or Archicad v12 can handle this facade (we use both) and we may have to consider Generative Components or Digital Project but do not have the user base or the time.

Our Struc/MEP consultants are using Revit 2009 but transfer via IFC is still an option as we have a large ArchiCad user base. Doing the facade in 3DMax/Rhino/Cinema4D etc is not an option. Would appreciate your feedback.
HM

That facade is going to need a structural design of its own. If your guys have not done it before, best to subcontract it to someone using Tekla, the BIM of the structural design world. It has a special facade module. You are stuck with IFC anyway.

Yes, you can do the modeling in ArchiCAD also, or Revit, but that thing has to be DESIGNED and the basis for that is the structural design. So if I were you, I would not try to know everything, but know who knows what.

My two dirhams,

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Thomas Holm — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:31:02 GMT

Harry wrote:
Think of a wellington boot with a scolloped top and an inverted crease in the front and you get the picture.

Looks like this , then?
(edited: as there were no comments on this, I apologize for bad taste. I have removed the attachment. The link is enough.)

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:06:53 GMT

Dwight wrote:
pisture = what a Canadian draws in the snow late on Saturday night.

So, I invented a new word, but it appeares it has already been invented!

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Dwight — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:13:55 GMT

Spelling mistakes help us discover new words.
I made this one just last week:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Introsuction

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:25:54 GMT

Dwight wrote:
pisture = what a Canadian draws in the snow late on Saturday night.

Perhaps 'carve' would be a better word than draw'...

And, with a limited color palette...

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Aaron Bourgoin — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:27:51 GMT

pass the beets, Karl.

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:34:17 GMT

Aaron wrote:
pass the beets, Karl.

Add some asparagus and we might have a reasonable gamut. Dot sizes and halftones would be challenging though.

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Dwight — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:47:24 GMT

Another way to know when it has gone too far.

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Erika Epstein — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:07:50 GMT

Dwight wrote:
Another way to know when it has gone too far.

Naw, Matthew just isn't familiar with the range of colors beets come in.
Now those red & white striped ones....

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 01:32:30 GMT

Harry wrote:
We have secured a large residentail project with a complex facade. The concept was modelled in Rhino but we have committed to deliver a full BIM project. Think of a wellington boot with a scolloped top and an inverted crease in the front and you get the picture. I am not sure Revit 2009 or Archicad v12 can handle this facade (we use both) and we may have to consider Generative Components or Digital Project but do not have the user base or the time.

Our Struc/MEP consultants are using Revit 2009 but transfer via IFC is still an option as we have a large ArchiCad user base. Doing the facade in 3DMax/Rhino/Cinema4D etc is not an option. Would appreciate your feedback.
HM

I think Digital Project is your solution:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/business/11gehry.html

I don't know about the beets.

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 05:36:30 GMT

Dwight wrote:
Another way to know when it has gone too far.

You have a problem with asparagus?

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Dwight — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:20:46 GMT

Huy yuy yuy!
Do i ever!

Color AND scent.

Can't wait. Got that special Sarawak black pepper so I'm ready.

Just in case you are interested, now that my Artlantis Attitude is just days from completion, my next book is "Getting Chicks With Food" - kitchen skills for single men.

Inspired by Archicad users worldwide.

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Thomas Holm — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 07:20:34 GMT

Thomas wrote:
Harry wrote:
Think of a wellington boot with a scolloped top and an inverted crease in the front and you get the picture.
Looks like this , then?

As there were no comments on this, I see I have to apologize for bad taste. I have removed the attached picture. The link is enough. Still, I wonder how much responsibility the design of this Koolhaas complex may have had on how this fire incident developed. This comment from The Straits Times sure is food for thought:

"One reason why the fire spread so quickly could be linked to the tower's design. The hotel boasts an open central section from top to bottom, akin to a huge airwell in the middle of the hotel, a Beijing-based architect with knowledge of the project told The Straits Times.

'The airwell provided the fire with a lot of oxygen, functioning sort of like a chimney,' he said."

I don't think the fact that the building wasn't finished is excuse enough. A fire shouldn't be able to spread like that in such a large complex, even if all protection devices weren't functional yet. The building was in fact partly in use during the Olympics. We're lucky this didn't happen then. Not even the fire in the WTC during 9/11 did spread like this!

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Aaron Bourgoin — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 19:09:17 GMT

yeesh.

Re: what sofware for BIM with complex facade?

Anonymous — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 08:49:17 GMT

Thomas
no the building does not look like that- more curvy. Due to confidentiality I cannot release pictures. Closer inspection of the concept design- by others - reveals that the double curvature is smoke and mirrors and is essentially a sexy eco-skeleton in front of a conventional if complex stepped facade. So Archicad can handle it and we can make an immediate start without having to go through the pain and expense of training a team in new software such as Digital Project. If we have to do some of skeleton in Rhino and bring in in via Cimema 4D at least the building as such will have BIM compliance. Thanks for your input guys-