topic Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard in Collaboration with other software

NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard"

Chazz — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 06:11:01 GMT

Maybe eveyone knew or suspected this aready but it's different when the grey lady says it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/business/11gehry.html?_r=1&ref=technology

This is a fascinating article but here is the money quote:

Architects routinely use modeling software, but the latest version of Digital Project would enable them to try extreme designs for skyscrapers. While acknowledging that the Gehry software is impressive, Carl Galioto of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, a firm that has designed many skyscrapers, says that it is hard to learn and three or four times as expensive as a conventional modeling program. Revit Architecture, the industry standard from Autodesk, is listed at $5,495 on Autodesk’s Web site.

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Djordje — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:58:05 GMT

Was it Goering, Hitler's PR man, who said that any lie repeated enough times becomes the truth?

Usually non existant GS US marketing ... what, no US firms that build skyscrapers use ArchiCAD, the most trusted VB application on the planet?

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Aaron Bourgoin — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:13:53 GMT

goebbels

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Dwight — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:46:49 GMT

"Ignore them and they will go away."

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Aaron Bourgoin — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:00:28 GMT

maybe Digital Project is feasible now that the average American understands how much a Trillion Dollars is.

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Erika Epstein — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:25:29 GMT

Aaron wrote:
maybe Digital Project is feasible now that the average American understands how much a Trillion Dollars is.

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Djordje — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 02:27:56 GMT

Aaron wrote:
goebbels

Duh!!! Thanks, Aaron! My bad!

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Rob — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 04:49:32 GMT

Revit Architecture, the industry standard from Autodesk

It is just a pile of crap...
BTW I remember a short time ago that US financial press was selling Investment Bank model as the industry leading standard from Walls Street. I would really rephrase Andy Warhol here: everyone will hold the industry standard for 15 minutes... 😉

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Dwight — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 05:29:18 GMT

So you can say, safe on your island in the sun where Archicad still has a chance.

The tremulous clouds of Mordor cast not their shadows on Australia, but here in North America, closer, as we are, to the "Mass Modeled" towers of Sauron, the Orcs march on relentlessly, clouding the vision of architects and putting their greasy mitts around the throats of BIM users.

"Allegiance or Death," they demand. "We will deny you all the peripherals - good luck ever getting an energy study!"

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Rob — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:12:12 GMT

The Minas Tirith has not fallen yet and an energy study can be obtain without wrongdoing of Orcs commanded by The Big Eye.

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Chazz — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:42:00 GMT

OK so no one believes the Gray Lady (at least in Dubai and down under. Canada appears split, poetically so). What about google? or the 2 billion people who use it?

It's pretty clear: this raft is sinking.

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Dwight — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:53:33 GMT

Yes. Even Chazz's avatar shows an Archicad user flung from an Orc airplane for refusing to kiss the ring.

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Rick Thompson — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:00:29 GMT

That's not a very encouraging graft is it. At least Mac is rapidly gaining market share, and Revit is AWOL there. I can't imagine firms are going to be very eager to spend money for any software upgrades this year, or the next.

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Thomas Holm — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:47:13 GMT

Chazz wrote:
It's pretty clear: this raft is sinking.

Well you can always interprete it the other way: Considering Autodesk's market presence and full force behind Revit, I think Archicad holds up very well. The "industry standard" still hasn't overrun AC.
But I'd like to know. W T F is "bim"?

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

vistasp — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:16:38 GMT

Chazz wrote:
It's pretty clear: this raft is sinking.

Huh? That was just a graph for search trends!

Google Trends provides insights into broad search patterns. Please keep in mind that several approximations are used when computing these results.

ADesk has huge resources and will naturally leverage them as best they can to create a buzz for all their software. A typical issue of AEC Bytes (just an example) will have 10 articles on Revit & 20 on AutoCAD ver. <next year's number>. If we're lucky, it may contain one article on AC.

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Chazz — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:01:57 GMT

vistasp wrote:
Huh? That was just a graph for search trends!

I'm not saying it's the truth with a capitol T but it is arguably the most readily available measure of which way the market is heading. Do you have a better metric?

And as to the point that Autodesk advertises and GS does not (so of course Revit would have more search activity reflected in Google Trends) I say, advertising makes a difference. My company is absolutely brand-obsessed and they take every opportunity to expose and promote the brand. They do this for a reason: because it works. It sells product.

Graphisoft assumes that no one in their right mind would invest in BIM without a thorough investigation of all the options, so they don't really need to promote ArchiCAD too aggressively (this may be true but it's a crappy sales/marketing mentality). But the most damning indictment of the company is becoming clear: once users DO horoughly investigate all the options they rightly conclude that Revit is better (or probably will be soon, given its trajectory).

I'm with Dwight: "Ignore them and they will go away"

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Dwight — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:39:28 GMT

Without going into the story of how i married into a family of Quaker bootlegger shepherds, and found myself on the hills of Sibford Ferris wrangling sheep to discover that once the flock begins to head for the barn, the stragglers, who could easily outrun my two waddling legs with their muscular, bounding four to leap and gambol with g a y abandon all night, that they go in, too.

A trend is a trend and it speaks loudly that you'll be in a field all alone when the wolves come wishing you had teeth for more than cud.

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Thomas Holm — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 20:32:55 GMT

Chazz wrote:
I'm with Dwight: "Ignore them and they will go away"

Yep. The Hungarians are just like us Swedes. We're the unquestionably the best, and that's an obvious fact that everyone will see if they just look. So it's best to keep shut. Clam-type marketing works!

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Laszlo Nagy — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 00:11:50 GMT

It is true that Revit is big in the US. But hey, here is graph from Germany, the biggest exporter of the world.

Re: NY Times:"Revit Architecture, the industry standard

Bricklyne Clarence — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:19:33 GMT

laszlonagy wrote:
It is true that Revit is big in the US. But hey, here is graph from Germany, the biggest exporter of the world.

I realize you have to wave the flag for Graphisoft here, and I reeeeally hate to have to be the bearer of a cold splash of reality here, but.....

......are we seriously comparing the German AEC user base to the American Construction Industry and user base? I realize the N. American real estate and Construction Industry is in a serious mess right now but is it even realistic/pragmatic/or even accurate to make such a comparison at all? I mean we all realize that ArchiCAD has a larger presence than Revit in Europe, and this has always been the case. But the fact that the reverse situation exists in North America (yes, the whole continent; as America goes, so do Canada and Mexico), has not always been the case.

Besides which, I think the point in the initial graph had to do with trends in recent interest rather than actual numbers of users of interested Googlers. ArchiCAD has been trending downwards (interest-wise and in terms of licensure) in both the US and Canada, in seriously dramatic fashion, for the last 7-10 years, and I'm sorry but we can't place it all at the doorstep of the age old-excuse of "Autodesk's market strength and Financial prowess"
Especially when most former ArchiCAD users now on Revit (because of company-policy or otherwise) and with sufficient knowledge of both programs still insist that ArchiCAD still remains far easier and more intuitive for Architects and designers to use.

The explanation probably lies closer to the perception that GS seems to, ( or looks like it seems to) have given up and capitulated the North American market to Autodesk; - particularly over the last couple of years - to focus their resources on their European 'home' base. Meanwhile Autodesk seems content (for now anyway) to strategically circumnavigate them (GS) and their European dominance by focusing their own global advertising and sales efforts in nacent (and not so nacent) markets in Asia, Australia, South America and West and Southern Africa; where Revit usage and awareness is on a N.American-like upwards trend. Its only a matter of time before they begin to take aim at European markets; especially when they leverage AutoCAD's unquestioned 'Industry-standard' status even in Europe.

Whereas ArchiCAD used to be ubiquitous in North American schools and Universities a couple of years ago, you'll be hard pressed to find graduates nowadays who've even heard of the program. Instead they ask about Revit since that is what they've heard, all the large firms ( Not just here in North America) use and look for in new hires. So in many ways, that initial chart is not surprising at all. The German one is probably reflective of among other things; the territoriality of Nemetschek's current user base along with ArchiCAD's already established user history in Europe along with (In my strong Opinion) the lag and reticence on Autodesk's part to breach that market. But that's only a matter of time.

All this despite the fact that ArchiCAD would seem, (to any knowledgeable and well-informed user, anyway) to be the superior product.