topic Re: Bentley driving me nuts in Collaboration with other software

Bentley driving me nuts

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:30:54 GMT

I have been put in charge of exploring Bentley because of its ability to bridge different formats seeing that we use Revit and AC. #1 problem was getting any information other than the same sales pitch we received 4 times. #2 Then to even get them to return emails or phone calls was a task within its self.

I finally got a trial version but was told by 3 people that work at Bentley/MS that they don't like to give out trials because it is so hard to use that people get turned off by it before they give it a chance. (Have to agree)

To top that off, the impression that I was given by superiors is that we need to learn it on our own and as fast as possible. (Thanks!)

I have a sneaking suspicion that they do not realize what it is like to have to learn a THIRD bim product, or one for that matter....

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:00:47 GMT

Sad but true. Bentley has a lot of great capabilities but its lack of ease of use means that its days are numbered. Bentley is a dead end. This coming from a guy who used to sell it...

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Thomas Holm — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:04:45 GMT

metanoia wrote:
Bentley is a dead end.

Have to agree, in general. I used Microstation 1989-1998. They embarked the sloping plane in the middle of the nineties. The final nail in the independant coffin was their agreement with Autodesk last year.

However, I do think they still have a niche as file manager and coordinator for very large projects, due to Microstation's still unsurpassed external reference file management, and integer internal calculations, which means that precision doesn't deteriorate depending on distance from origin.

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:07:13 GMT

Well we were looking at facilities manager, but its not a BIM application as far as I can tell. I guess I need to explore that route furthur.

I don't want to be a jack of all trades and a master of none, I want to be a AC and Revit master

Pssstt...I like AC way better. My master taught me well. lol

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Erika Epstein — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:57:06 GMT

JLKilgore wrote:
I have been put in charge of exploring Bentley because of its ability to bridge different formats seeing that we use Revit and AC.

Could you expand on what you mean by 'bridge'? What you are hoping to accomplish with this [third CAD]software?

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:02:14 GMT

My employer wants to be versatile in all BIM products and Bentley was able to use the live....I am drawing a blank. Being able to draw from all the different formats into one central file.

Of course all this is coming from the sales pitch and I am not clear on whether it works well or not. From my experience, I am not going to be surprised if its not a little fluffed up in its claims.

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Erika Epstein — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:22:25 GMT

JLKilgore wrote:
My employer wants to be versatile in all BIM products.

Why?What is M. Employer hoping to gain from this?

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:29:49 GMT

The grand scheme is to have a department that has experts in all BIM applications so that we can send out consultants to either kick start projects or consult all the way through them without the client having to hire a BIM team.

All this is in theory.

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Thomas Holm — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:38:37 GMT

JLKilgore wrote:
.... Being able to draw from all the different formats into one central file.

Of course all this is coming from the sales pitch and I am not clear on whether it works well or not. From my experience, I am not going to be surprised if its not a little fluffed up in its claims.

Microstation is strong in importing and exporting different DWG flavors, and you can save sets of different settings for different apps - as long as they all can handle DWG in some way. (Don't use Archicad's DGN translator).

So I think the idea of using Microstation as a coordination hub is good, and that's the way it's used in many large projects today. I'd still prefer Archicad for modeling as far as possible.

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:46:09 GMT

I wouldn't mind just learning the coordination part of Bentley since I am more versed in AC but the job we are chasing is for the core of engineers and they insist it is 100% Bentley.

UGh

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:28:06 GMT

JLKilgore wrote:
... but the job we are chasing is for the core of engineers and they insist it is 100% Bentley. UGh

Don't we just love the politics of CAD/BIM. First, at great pain & expense, we adopt the electronic way designing. Then both we and the software makers market it to our clients as the greatest thing since slice bread. They adopt. Then turn around and tell us what software to use and how to use it. The double edged sword cuts again.
Same issue here:
http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=27492

Dave

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:44:28 GMT

That may be a double edge sword but powers that be that are clueless to BIM and Architecture period is more like a bazooka to the face.

I should have went to law school....sigh, hindsight.

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 03:24:49 GMT

JLKilgore wrote:
That may be a double edge sword but powers that be that are clueless to BIM and Architecture period is more like a bazooka to the face.

Since you're running constructor I'm guessing you work for a construction firm. If so that is a doubly tough nut to crack.

I know, I spent nearly 2 years in a consulting contract for a large regional one trying to get them to understand and implement BIM in some productive way.
In the end, what they really wanted was to use it for marketing and to be able to claim that they were BIM "experts" to meet proposal qualifications. Some hospitals are starting to require this.

They finally ended up hiring a guy to run Navisworks to import models from the designers to show the owners they are doin' BIM. It's not used in any way other than for show (no project management, field coordination, interference check, estimating, nothing) What a waste. Oh except they qualify and get work doing it that way. And that ,as some say, is the bottom line.

Dave

PS:When they called me I was on Microstation. In the process of trying to convince them, it convinced me to switch to ArchiCAD.

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:17:43 GMT

ONLY in Architecture can that happen, I would LOVE not to take my lawyers advice or suggest a better method to him knowing that I know nothing about law.

*Smacking forehead*

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Erika Epstein — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 05:26:17 GMT

Dave wrote:
They finally ended up hiring a guy to run Navisworks to import models from the designers to show the owners they are doin' BIM. It's not used in any way other than for show (no project management, field coordination, interference check, estimating, nothing)

I disagree: I've seen large construction companies insisting on 3Dmodels because the Navisworks weekly review is integral to their construction process.

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:23:02 GMT

Yeah I like Navisworks, I am new to is but so far everything I have seen it do it is a handy side tool to have.

Really now a days we can do anything with the myriad of programs available. I have been researching so many that my head is spinning on this one does this that one does that.

If I could have a superpower it would be to master any computer program in one day. Maybe our kids will "download" a la Matrix and laugh at us for having to "learn" a program.

Re: Bentley driving me nuts

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:36:19 GMT

Erika wrote:
Dave wrote:
They finally ended up hiring a guy to run Navisworks to import models from the designers to show the owners they are doin' BIM. It's not used in any way other than for show (no project management, field coordination, interference check, estimating, nothing)
I disagree: I've seen large construction companies insisting on 3Dmodels because the Navisworks weekly review is integral to their construction process.

I agree with your disagreement

My point was that this contractor is only using it for marketing. Not for "review..integral to their construction process"