topic Re: Letter to Cadimage in Collaboration with other software

Letter to Cadimage

gpowless — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 22:52:22 GMT

info@cadimagegroup.com

Hi,

I will not be upgrading Cadimage products. Instead I will be using Archicad native tools to model with.

In short, I find the upgrade price exorbitant and have found the past upgrades cumbersome to integrate into past projects. As Archicad has come a long way in improving their windows and doors, I no longer have a need for third party tools.

Thanks for your help in the past and good luck.

Gregg Powless
Ontario BCIN Designer

Re: Letter to Cadimage

KeesW — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:25:09 GMT

You'll have trouble opening existing projects created with Cadimage tools.

Re: Letter to Cadimage

gpowless — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:42:56 GMT

Only if I try to update them.

I have Archicad back to Ver. 6 and Door and Window Builder back as far as it goes so I don't think I'll have a problem.

Re: Letter to Cadimage

KeesW — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 22:50:40 GMT

What I meant was that you won't be able to properly open older projects containing Cadimage objects with AC16 without Cadimage objects. There will be lots of dots indicating missing components such as doors and windows. That has been my experience anyway.

Re: Letter to Cadimage

gpowless — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 12:32:20 GMT

I understood that but in the end for a 4000 sq ft home if would take under an hour to replace all the windows and doors in the house with my standard windows and doors. That is less than an upgrade for the 1 or two times I might use it.

Re: Letter to Cadimage

gpowless — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 13:00:50 GMT

Oh and don't forget... updating old plans to use in current versions is borne by the client as billable hours. Cadimage isn't that valuable any more.

My Chief compliant as with many third party tools is that in an effort to become more detailed they have complicated the interface so much that it takes as much time to modify my favorited doors and windows as it does to create new ones. I am tired of having to open the tool to change the label settings and the appearance which always default to an insulation with a thick purple pen with purple backgrounds. As well from version to version the default colours have changed which requires me to update old Cadimage parts anyway. It just isn't worth my time to fix a tool every time I want to use it.

Re: Letter to Cadimage

Jere — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:28:17 GMT

Why not write the letter to CADImage privately rather than posting it publicly on a Graphisoft forum? Not sure what you're trying to accomplish here.

Re: Letter to Cadimage

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 02 Aug 2012 00:00:48 GMT

Jere wrote:
Why not write the letter to CADImage privately rather than posting it publicly on a Graphisoft forum? Not sure what you're trying to accomplish here.

I suspect he was trying to get a feel for how many other people feel that Cadimage's upgrade pricing (for no announced new features - only re-compiled with the new SDK) - is on the high side.

I'm surprised no other people have chimed in. I also find the pricing obscene. Having just upgraded their D/W product just a couple of months ago, they now want more than another $100 just to give me the ability to use it with 16. I reported several bugs and missing features, none of which seem to have been fixed. For people who have bought into the Cadimage ecosystem, the total annual update price over all their products just makes no sense for a one or two person firm.

Encina generously provides updates to Objective for no charge; Cigraph provides update to its entire suite (all 18 add-ons) for just 160 euro.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Letter to Cadimage

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Aug 2012 00:39:33 GMT

I have a couple of C.I.'s tools, and I think they work well for the most part.
They have also been very responsive when I've called, and they have actually called me back and set up web screen share for a tool-issue resolution session at no cost to me.
However, the only reason I've not bought more of their tools, as I would like to get two more of them, is the cost of upgrading any more at their current upgrade pricing rates.
I'm afraid of getting an upgrade bill for more than I can afford in lean times, as I'm committed (at least for now) at staying current each year with AC.
lec

Re: Letter to Cadimage

David Collins — Thu, 02 Aug 2012 06:23:42 GMT

gpowless wrote:
My Chief compliant as with many third party tools is that in an effort to become more detailed they have complicated the interface so much...

This is an old story for me. I made a declaration of independence from third-parties years ago partly because of the cost and delays with each upgrade, but also because archived projects were being compromised. One nice thing about custom library objects is that they never suffer from parametric bloat, of which you so rightly complain.

Re: Letter to Cadimage

Achille Pavlidis — Thu, 02 Aug 2012 07:59:11 GMT

Same here with Cigraph add-ons.

I used some of them in the past (Architerra and Archistair mainly) but the trouble of updating the parts when upgrading versions and the resulting dependency upon them has persuaded me to stop using third-party add-ons.

Re: Letter to Cadimage

Wokka — Sun, 05 Aug 2012 23:50:56 GMT

I must say I agree with the sentiments of the original post, even though I've been an avid user of cadimage products for the last 7-8 years. I can't see anything extra I got for my upgrade that is really relevant to me apart from being R16. As I do Architectural visualisations, the windows/doors and coverings are great to add lots of details, but I'd be thinking twice with the downturn in work in Australia about upgrading. Having said that, Archicad windows and doors, are to me, one of the biggest issue's and problems with the software that I've been using since R4.55. As a contractor and consultant, almost every office I work at has issues with scheduling, ganging, door/window combinations and the general inflexible nature of the ArchiCad objects. At least the door/window tool has a great single interface that is pretty intuitive. It's a pity ArchiCad doesn't allow more screen real estate to manipulate to object.....
Sorry, just my Monday morning rant...
And don't get me started on the curtain wall tool.....
OR the olympics......(doing well GB...)

Re: Letter to Cadimage

Marky — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 11:51:24 GMT

Karl wrote:
Jere wrote:
Why not write the letter to CADImage privately rather than posting it publicly on a Graphisoft forum? Not sure what you're trying to accomplish here.
I suspect he was trying to get a feel for how many other people feel that Cadimage's upgrade pricing (for no announced new features - only re-compiled with the new SDK) - is on the high side.

I'm surprised no other people have chimed in. I also find the pricing obscene. Having just upgraded their D/W product just a couple of months ago, they now want more than another $100 just to give me the ability to use it with 16. I reported several bugs and missing features, none of which seem to have been fixed. For people who have bought into the Cadimage ecosystem, the total annual update price over all their products just makes no sense for a one or two person firm.

Encina generously provides updates to Objective for no charge; Cigraph provides update to its entire suite (all 18 add-ons) for just 160 euro.

Cheers,
Karl

Ditto.
Marek

Re: Letter to Cadimage

ci-JoshOs — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 22:22:55 GMT

Hi everyone - not hijacking this thread, but I just wanted to pop my head in to let you know that we have seen this and we've heard(read) your comments.

Re: Letter to Cadimage

Wokka — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 23:05:39 GMT

henrypootel wrote:
Hi everyone - not hijacking this thread, but I just wanted to pop my head in to let you know that we have seen this and we've heard(read) your comments.

Henry, your not hijacking, it's good to see you here. Much better than graphisoft that have selective hearing.. Your comments and feedback would be welcome! Thanks

Re: Letter to Cadimage

ci-JoshOs — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 02:46:49 GMT

Well, my view is that the process of creating and selling something isn't a single event, but is more like the start of a relationship with your customer (yes, I am aware that that sounds really cheesy - bear with me).

At Cadimage, our big focus is on helping our customers to use ArchiCAD as best they can and, by extensions, to 'do Architecture' as best they can. So what we focus on is making sure that our products are comprehensively tested, that we give you support that is not only fast, but that actually helps you improve your workflow, and that we provide a range of help and training resources so that you can keep upgrading your skills.

That's why we spend our time on creating a detailed knowledge base, producing video tutorials, providing support inside of the next business day (often within just an hour or so), and devoting a large proportion of our people to testing our releases before they go out.

The upgrade fee is there pretty much entirely to support our efforts in these other areas but, because they aren’t directly apparent as a result of an upgrade, it seems like we’re asking for money for nothing. You’re not going to find new features in the tools to justify paying for the upgrade though, as we don’t put them in at upgrade time.

For instance, during the course of V15, we incorporated new features to auto-load Presets, we built in support for the Renovation filters in the Coverings tool, we put double-glazing settings to the Doors+Windows tool, and a bunch of other things too.

If all you want is to get the product and then keep using it in it's current state, then that's fine, but we want to keep on improving our products so that we can help you to do your job better.

We could lower or remove the upgrade fee, but to do that, we’d have to stop delivering things that we think are essential to the wellbeing of the Cadimage ecosystem – like great customer support, robust testing, and up to date documentation & training aids.

A simpler way to say it, I guess, is that we'd rather teach you how to fish (or how to fish better), than to just give you a fish and then leave. We're not in it for a quick buck, we're in it for the long haul.

Because we really do think that helping Architects, Designers, and Draughties to do their job better is better for all of us.

Re: Letter to Cadimage

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 03:14:42 GMT

henrypootel wrote:
...
A simpler way to say it, I guess, is that we'd rather teach you how to fish (or how to fish better), than to just give you a fish and then leave. ....

Ah, yes, that famous analogy - "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish... and he'll steal your boat and drink your beer."

Re: Letter to Cadimage

Wokka — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 03:22:15 GMT

s2art wrote:
henrypootel wrote:
...
A simpler way to say it, I guess, is that we'd rather teach you how to fish (or how to fish better), than to just give you a fish and then leave. ....
Ah, yes, that famous analogy - "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish... and he'll steal your boat and drink your beer."

Re: Letter to Cadimage

ci-JoshOs — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 03:26:07 GMT

Ah, yes, that famous analogy - "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish... and he'll steal your boat and drink your beer."

Ha!

Re: Letter to Cadimage

Stress Co_ — Fri, 10 Aug 2012 06:11:54 GMT

henrypootel wrote:
we have seen this and we've heard(read) your comments.

As long as we have your ear......
I've been using D+W since AC10 and have wondered if we'll ever have the option to list doors by their panel size (instead of the rough opening)?
That is to say the Nominal size in AC is the size of the door panel and D+W it's the size of the R.O.
This messes with my AC door schedules.

Also.... the Support Centre is helpfull, but why no user manuals??