topic Re: Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating in Collaboration with other software

Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 17:32:51 GMT

I think this could have momentous implications for Archicad users, and haven't read any comment in this Forum yet, so here it goes:

VICO has completely changed it's strategy.

Formerly, they developed Constructor (Archicad on steroids) as part of their suite, although it was possible to import AC files directly into Constructor and then associate the database there.

This resulted, for AC users, in having to buy Constructor too.

Recently, VICO is moving into an open platform format, that has no longer a Modeler (Constructor), but allows users to import files from Tekla, Revit and Archicad.
http://www.vicosoftware.com/products/Vico-Office/tabid/85286/Default.aspx

This is obviously a very smart move, but this post is not about the far reaching consequences of allowing Revit users to work with VICO.

My interest is in the importance ArchiCad acquires in this new VICO Office suite.

Because now I can buy VICO Ofice Client, which handles my AC model, and VICO takeoff manager, which produces those very good VICO takeoffs.

And my model will be usable for the constructor down the line, if he uses VICO suite.

They even sell ArchiCAD 12 with the suite, as their modeler, which has to be good news for us.

So, we will finally have a decent estimating tool, albeit outside ArchiCad. This could mean we will never get it inside, but on the other hand we now can do those things we sell our clients as doable.

For more info on the new VICO Office suite, view this excellent webinar:
https://www1.gotomeeting.com/register/860742182

Re: Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating

Karl Ottenstein — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:55:12 GMT

Maybe I had too much coffee ... but I cannot find a "where to buy" link on the Vico web site, or any pricing information. Help?

Ah. Just found "where to buy" on the site map, not the menus. Soft sell, I suppose. Too soft.

Anybody know pricing?

Thanks,
Karl

Re: Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:05:45 GMT

Karl wrote:
Anybody know pricing?

If you watch the webinar I linked, it is all there.
It is about 80 min long, and pricing should be around minute 50, give or take 10.

Re: Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating

owen — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:30:14 GMT

Krippahl wrote:
Recently, VICO is moving into an open platform format, that has no longer a Modeler (Constructor), but allows users to import files from Tekla, Revit and Archicad.
http://www.vicosoftware.com/products/Vico-Office/tabid/85286/Default.aspx

This is obviously a very smart move, but this post is not about the far reaching consequences of allowing Revit users to work with VICO.

My interest is in the importance ArchiCad acquires in this new VICO Office suite.

They even sell ArchiCAD 12 with the suite, as their modeler, which has to be good news for us.

I might be missing something but i cannot see where it says they sell ArchiCAD as part of Vico Office - my take is the Vico Office 'core' is now a 'BIM Neutral' (their own words) Add-On for ArchiCAD/Revit/Tekla which allows those programs to export Vico Office format for input into the various Vico Modules?

I would say this means ArchiCAD has just lost a great deal of importance in the Vico Suite.

So ArchiCAD - which used to be sold with every Vico suite (generating licensing $$ for GS) - is no longer required. This cannot be good for Graphisoft unless i am missing the very very big picture. Seems like Vico are moving themselves more and more towards Autodesk. Makes you wonder when the day comes they are faced with a choice that will provide greater integration with Revit at the expense of ArchiCAD what decision will be made.

Also wondering if they are no longer developing the Constructor component what will happen to all the additional modelling tools it had that were not available in 'Vanilla' ArchiCAD ...

Hopefully someone can point out what i am missing!

Re: Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:53:05 GMT

My intention was not going into that subject, but I guess it is inevitable.

The big picture, that you might be missing, is that if VICO didn't make it's product Revit compatible, they would be relegated to a niche market as soon as a comparable Autodesk product appeared.

VICO is going to great pains to present itself as a neutral platform.

If you watch the webinar, it says specifically that they will sell ArchiCad12 as the modeling tool. This looks as a better deal for AC user than former Constructor.

If you are wondering if Autodesk will eventually buy VICO, as soon as it gets relevant for their business, as they have done with other "Neutral" platforms recently, the answer has to be maybe. There is certainly no software company in this business that is Autodesk proof, and VICO could boost their claim on the BIM business.

Nevetheless, Archicad has existed for more than 25 years albeit Autodesk, and I always heard that argument that it could just be bought from one day to the other, and it was not a safe bet. For 25 years.

If you choose not to be suffocated by that fear, it is easy to realize that VICO going mainstream and electing ArchiCAD as it's preferred modeler can only be good news for us. For one, we can use Archicad and complement it with the VICO Office to produce really good estimating at project level.
For another, the visibility Archicad gets is much superior to the former state of things, where there was something called Constructor, that we knew was Archicad but most people didn't.

I choose to look at the glass and see it half full. Call me a mindless optimist, but as a Mac and an Archicad user AND an architect, I have to be otherwise I would go crazy 😉

Re: Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating

owen — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:31:24 GMT

Well secretly an optimist too

I should have watched the webinar but i am on a sloooow connection atm and expected fundamental information like this would be on the website, not only in the webinar.

good to hear they are still strongly behind ArchiCAD .. lesson learned!

Sorry to derail the topic .. that was not really my intention. I was quite interested in what would happen to the Constructor 'extras' - i will watch the webinar and then ask questions!

Re: Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:51:04 GMT

mmm...few points on the issue, I have worked with some projects with the VICO suite as a part of the service team, and I think that one thing that is not so clear for us "Architects" basically, that the Construction model, is kind of different than the normal model that we produce , to be able to produce all the required schedules and estimation ..etc ( you can't use any tool to produce any shape to be able to extract proper data of it ) . so what I want to say is knowing ArchiCAD , Revit , Bently or whatever ( I don't mean my nickname here " doesn't exactly mean that we are ready to put it into the VICO oven and get that estimation cake !

thats one thing, another thing is that VICO itself provides service, and modeling is part of the service that they provide. and as far as I know that most of the modeling team and sub teams are ArchiCAD guys.

so even if you use other BIM package the question is : do you know how to produce a Construction model ? if not (mostly the answer without proper VICO training is : no ) then you will look for the service ! and here comes ArchiCAD again to the picture . thats my opinion about the deal...for sure till the day that Big Brother decides to go and buy VICO ?

however that was a smart ( and essential ) move from VICO as there is no point of sticking with one VB-BIM modeler ! actually I always found it kind of weird loyalty !

Re: Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating

Laszlo Nagy — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:01:15 GMT

Krippahl wrote:
If you are wondering if Autodesk will eventually buy VICO, as soon as it gets relevant for their business, as they have done with other "Neutral" platforms recently, the answer has to be maybe. There is certainly no software company in this business that is Autodesk proof, and VICO could boost their claim on the BIM business.

Maybe it is time now for NEMETSCHEK to buy VICO, it already owns Graphisoft so they would be a perfect match. VICO could remain BIM-neutral but it would increase Nemetschek's strength in this new and important area of the industry.
Just my very personal opinion.

Re: Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating

Erika Epstein — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:46:25 GMT

When Vico was spun off from Graphisoft, did graphisoft retain any ownership?

Re: Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating

Laszlo Nagy — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:01:19 GMT

No ownership in it, as far as I know.

Re: Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating

Erika Epstein — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:16:59 GMT

Too bad. I thought by spinning it off and retaining some ownership they could reap the financial rewards of Revit users buying VICO.

Re: Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:08:09 GMT

laszlonagy wrote:
Maybe it is time now for NEMETSCHEK to buy VICO, it already owns Graphisoft so they would be a perfect match.

As much as I would relish that scenario, I find it highly unlikely. VICO was spun off Graphisoft right before it's acquisition by Nemetschek, supposedly in part because the Germans where not interested in the construction side of BIM.

But we can always dream.

Re: Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating

owen — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:44:54 GMT

Krippahl wrote:
As much as I would relish that scenario, I find it highly unlikely. VICO was spun off Graphisoft right before it's acquisition by Nemetschek, supposedly in part because the Germans where not interested in the construction side of BIM.

I suppose the Constructor Suite would have competed with the Allplan Suite? But then again ArchiCAD competes with, no .. dominates Allplan Architecture - so this really doesn't make much sense to me (Not disputing your explanation of the spin-off though). I thought Allplan was pretty much a Euro-only thing that had little love in North America whereas Constructor stood a chance of succeeding? Kind of makes you wonder why they bought Graphisoft - they now have 3 CAD/BIM products aimed at Architects...

We will see .. this may prove to be a stupid decision by Nemetschek.

Re: Using the new VICO to do Archicad estimating

Laszlo Nagy — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:43:27 GMT

This is getting a bit off topic on my part:
I always thought that this big firms have this idea that if they buy all worthwhile programs on a market then they may have overlapping products but as long as they bring the income to them, so be it.
Autodesk has 4 products that an architect can potentially use: AutoCAD LT, AutoCAD, AutoCAD Architecture (formerly AutoCAD ADT) and Revit Architecture.
Nemetschek has 3 such products: Vectorworks, ArchiCAD and AllPlan.

I always have a bad feeling about very large companies in general. They become such behemoths that they can not easily change themselves and so they fail with time.
Just think about the financial industry: Citi, Bank of America, AIG on the verge of total collapse, being on life support by the US government.

Of course, Autodesk is close to that state than Nemetschek. Probably not in it, though because it is not that huge a company.