topic Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave... in Collaboration with other software

Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Steve Jepson — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:25:05 GMT

I am not getting accurate schedules for roofs.

In this example I have two identical roofs systems. One a multi roof and the other has been split into individual roofs.

Notice that the calculations are not all the same.

I did this test because my roof schedules are not reliable or accurate.
They also do not match manual calculations for lengths of hips, valleys, etc...Surface areas I think are ok I haven't manually tested them.

Am I doing something wrong? This example is not nearly so bad as others I am working on.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Barry Kelly — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 09:14:23 GMT

It is a bit of a worry that the multi-plane roof is calculating 11 surfaces when there is clearly 12.
It is adding surfaces 9 & 11 together but I can't see from the image which ones these are.
It seems to be getting everything else right (well consistent at least) except for the hip lengths but I can't make out which if any is correct.
It seems to have nothing to do with them being added together - the total for those tow adds to the total of the multi-plane surface (the second one).
If I had to guess I would say the multi-plane roof has the hips correct as there are two surfaces that don't have hips.
The single roof planes all have a value for hips.
Barry.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Steve Jepson — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:16:17 GMT

Thanks for taking a look at this. It is frustrating that so many times I can not trust the results of the interactive schedules.

I am trying to make a roof plan with schedules for a client in New Zealand and I am in trouble for this reason, but also because of the complications of working with metric units, strange unit sizes, and strange words. Nogging ? Clouts ? To complicate matters the materials are manufactured here in the US and are not very compatible with standard units the products are sold in or ordered in.

You can see the ID labels better in this picture.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Steve Jepson — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 18:11:22 GMT

Note roofs 11 and 12 for example:

The eaves, ridges, valleys are dimensioned. The superscript is the length on the slope. Nothings is correct except the eave length. This being the case, nothing in the schedule can be trusted.

I want this fixed.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Steve Jepson — Fri, 16 Aug 2013 00:04:53 GMT

Barry wrote:
It is a bit of a worry that the multi-plane roof is calculating 11 surfaces when there is clearly 12.
It is adding surfaces 9 & 11 together but I can't see from the image which ones these are.
It seems to be getting everything else right (well consistent at least) except for the hip lengths but I can't make out which if any is correct.
It seems to have nothing to do with them being added together - the total for those tow adds to the total of the multi-plane surface (the second one).
If I had to guess I would say the multi-plane roof has the hips correct as there are two surfaces that don't have hips.
The single roof planes all have a value for hips.
Barry.

Also I count ten hips on the roof - schedules have 9 on one 12 on the other.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Barry Kelly — Fri, 16 Aug 2013 01:20:47 GMT

Steve wrote:
Note roofs 11 and 12 for example:

The eaves, ridges, valleys are dimensioned. The superscript is the length on the slope. Nothings is correct except the eave length. This being the case, nothing in the schedule can be trusted.

I want this fixed.

Most of the figures are correct as you mentioned before - they show half the total length.
The worrying part here is the "hips" on 11 & 12 which are actually "gables" and as they are not touching other roof surfaces they should not be halved.
Barry.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Barry Kelly — Fri, 16 Aug 2013 01:27:02 GMT

I can see now that roof planes 9 & 11 have exactly the same length eave (pitching line) which is why the multi-plane roof has added them together as one surface.
To me this is a bug but you could try unchecking the "show uniform entry as single entry" in the schedule.
Barry.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Barry Kelly — Fri, 16 Aug 2013 01:32:54 GMT

Steve wrote:
Also I count ten hips on the roof - schedules have 9 on one 12 on the other.

The multi-plane roof is correct - remember it is adding two roof lanes together as one entry so in fact it is listing 10 not 9.

The single plane roofs are counting the gables as hips and adding the total lengths of gables and hips together for each surface which is why it is listing 12. It thinks every roof has a hip when in fact 2 of them only have a gable.

Barry.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Steve Jepson — Fri, 16 Aug 2013 05:41:05 GMT

The number of ridges and valleys are not correct either.

It is not just the totals that are important. I need to have an accurate report of individual lengths as well, and they need to match the plans.

Also, if you make a schedule that shows all of the available fields for roofs some of them like Gable Length will show nothing at all.

This picture is of another situation where it does not show the length of the eave correctly - see roof 3 - the schedule did not pick up the 10m length.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Barry Kelly — Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:30:38 GMT

Steve wrote:
The number of ridges and valleys are not correct either.

It is not just the totals that are important. I need to have an accurate report of individual lengths as well, and they need to match the plans.

Also, if you make a schedule that shows all of the available fields for roofs some of them like Gable Length will show nothing at all.

In the image attached everything seems to be OK except the multi-plane roof has added two surfaces together and the single planes have included the gables as hips.
Check the status of the edge of the roof and see if indeed they are set as hips or gables.

Barry.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Barry Kelly — Fri, 16 Aug 2013 07:43:32 GMT

Steve wrote:
This picture is of another situation where it does not show the length of the eave correctly - see roof 3 - the schedule did not pick up the 10m length.

Sorry Steve I didn't see you latest image when I relied.
Check the edges to see what they are listed as.
I created a multi-plane roof - created a gable and converted to single planes.
This is what I got for the gable end.

This was in 16 though - I don't have 17 loaded on my laptop at the moment.

Maybe your 10m eave is not being treated as an eave because that section has been pushed back behind the original eave line.

Barry.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Steve Jepson — Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:11:59 GMT

That may be just the trick.

Thanks I either didn't know how to do that or I forgot. That will solve several of my problems with the schedules.

Editing the roof edge to eave fixed the length of eave problem I was having with roof 3. I am happy with ArchiCAD again now.

My incompetence would not have shown up if I were not making this special kind of Roof Surface Plan for a roofing contractor. It is not your typical roof plan that he wants.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Steve Jepson — Fri, 16 Aug 2013 10:30:55 GMT

That was the trick Barry.

Editing the roof edges makes the schedules match better.

Still some calculation issues I think. Roof 1 and 6 have the same length of hip. Should the schedule show 1/2 the length for each roof so the total will work out ?

Here's the link to this file:
http://www.hightail.com/download/bWJyV0o1YUlnYU5Yd3NUQw

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Barry Kelly — Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:37:49 GMT

Roof 1 has a little more hip length than roof 6 as it share an extra hip with roof 2.
The schedule is showing half the length.
The hip on roof 1/6 is 11.1 feet on the rake.
The schedule is showing 5.55 feet which is correct.
Barry.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Barry Kelly — Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:44:05 GMT

Just as I thought - turn off the "Show uniform items as a single entry".
Barry.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Steve Jepson — Thu, 18 Apr 2019 20:46:04 GMT

It's been a while and several versions of the program later , but I am still not getting useful results from the Interactive Schedules for total length of hip, valley, ridge, etc..

This is a version 22 file with the same problems.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hyfevb74lwif2yo/ROOF%20SCHEDULE%20TEST.zip?dl=0

I need some way to extact the total lenght of hip, ridge, valley, and eave in to an interactive roof schedule that is useful for the people who use it.

I would like to have each hip, valley, ridge, eave with an ID to match in the Interactive Schedule.
I can do that, but not with roofs.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Richard Morrison — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 02:25:59 GMT

I'm not sure this is possible. You have shared hips, valleys, and ridges, which double the totals. You would either need to allocate 1/2 of the length to the individual roofs, which will give you more accurate subtotals, but wrong individual cases, or exclude one from each shared pair.

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 08:47:53 GMT

Why not just model the hips, ridges valley flashings with a complex profile beam and them simply schedule these? I have been modelling flashings, cappings, gutters, box gutters (incl support boards) ever since complex profile beams became available and it really takes next to no time to model but it’s all there in sections elevations 3D views etc much quicker than adding 2d

Re: Schedule for Hips, Ridge, Valley, Gable, Eave...

Steve Jepson — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 17:44:33 GMT

sboydturner wrote:
Why not just model the hips, ridges valley flashings with a complex profile beam and them simply schedule these? I have been modelling flashings, cappings, gutters, box gutters (incl support boards) ever since complex profile beams became available and it really takes next to no time to model but it’s all there in sections elevations 3D views etc much quicker than adding 2d

I do. But occasionally I am not modeling for the purpose of generating construction documents.
For example, the roof plan I am making this time is for a roofing contractor. The roof plan is for the sake of a re-roof, not a new roof. What he wants in the schedule are the lengths of hips, ridge, valley, eave, and the surface of each roof plane. So a simple roof plan is made based on the county tax assessors building diagram/dimensions on line, + some google earth images, pictures, and owners info about roof pitch an width of soffit. This is enough apparently for an estimate. They can see the roof jacks, chimneys, vents, etc from the google earth and google maps.

In any case, of course there are other ways to get that basic information but it should be something you can get from the roof into a useful Interactive Schedule.

They scout with google earth to find houses with tarps on them, find the address, get the building dimensions/bldg footprint for the tax assessor, determine the roof pitch and eaves and poof - you have a roofing bid you can mail out. Explode the tax assessors .pdf, group the lines you need, make roof settings, use magic wand, schedules automatically populate. Bid goes out - money in the bank! There are all kinds of reasons why models are being made with ArchiCAD that are not all about permit plans.
The same sort of thing can be done for the lawn care business. New driveway business... Drone services business... And all of these translate into really easy work for ArchiCAD users. I can make as much money on this type of quick work as I can on regular projects and they really help to fill down time. I only take on about 4 or 5 large Custom Homes per year now. The rest is a very wide variety of rather unusual use of the program.