topic Re: exporting to c4d in Collaboration with other software

exporting to c4d

Anonymous — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 00:45:32 GMT

I think that I've tried just about all the various options and so far find the OBJ format to work the best. However, when I export by materials, which makes sense, ALL the AC geometry of that material comes in as ONE single polygon object in C4D. This is a major, major pain as there is no easy way to split all the polygons like the explode command in autocad...you have to do it polygon by polygon. What I would really like to see in the file transfer is all the polys of one material to come in under a single null object in C4D so that each part is easily accessed amd edited in C4D and yet comes in already "sorted" by material under the null object. This would save a lot of time. By the way, that is the way FormZ objects come in, except I used to do it by layers, but same concept.

Have I missed an option here somewhere that might work better? I did try the AC to C4D exchange plugin...and offhand can not remember the results as far as how the geometry came in.

Re: exporting to c4d

Wokka — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:27:36 GMT

Joesphus,
That's exackly what the exchange plugin does but only available on ArchiCad 11. The new plugin will probably be out before R13 if we're lucky
I use it all the time and it's very good most of the time. Occasionally some geometry is missed in large complex models but will return the next time you save the file.
Regarding C4D, if your in polygon mode, you can select groups of polygons and use the 'split' command.

Cheers

Re: exporting to c4d

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 00:44:32 GMT

Wokka wrote:
That's exackly what the exchange plugin does but only available on ArchiCad 11. The new plugin will probably be out before R13 if we're lucky Regarding C4D, if your in polygon mode, you can select groups of polygons and use the 'split' command.

Warwick, thx for your reply. Just tried the plugin again w/AC11 and C4D10.5...it definitely gives me all the polys I could want So far we've not switched to AC12 as we're still having problems with the 3D Profiler for AC12...personally I wish 3DProfiler would just go away if GS can't bring it into the heart of the program. I would rather do about 90% of the model in AC with native commands and do the rest for construction docs in 2D like the old days, and then finish the model in C4D for final presentation. Since I've been leaning much more to using Maxwell than VRayforC4D (which I may see if they will let me sell), I think that probably the OBJ export with materials works the best as it will be a lot easier to assign Maxwell materials that way. I will just have to clean up my AC material model assignments some before exporting to C4D. Per your comment the split command works fine for a single poly at a time or a group of polys that will be split as a group and not as a collection of individual polys, which is more what I was hoping for.

By the way, we have a very similar hardware/software setup. I'm also a practicing architect (a bit older) becoming more and more interested in focussing on the design and viz part...the fun stuff

Re: exporting to c4d

Wokka — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:38:30 GMT

Maybe not that much older

How is Maxwell going? I was onboard when all the preliminary trouble started and bailed out when Vray bridge appeared.
Yes, the design and fun of images is great, but in this market if your not 100% into the rendering, it doesn't always pay the bills. So it's construction documentation thats paying the bank at the moment

Cheers

Re: exporting to c4d

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:19:48 GMT

Maxwell is going well, the C4D plugin works very well and is very easy to use...the ONLY issue I have is that it takes sooooooo long to do a render of an interior, but the results are very satisfying. I'm still very much in the learning mode for both C4D and Maxwell. Fortunately at work I currently have available an 8 core computer to render on, so that helps. I also bailed out for a long time during the beta and RC releases.

By the way, I've tried the Maxwell plugin for Archicad which works fine but is limited by the rendering settings within AC. It's a bit cumbersome to use when compared to how nicely it works within C4D.

I've been both self-employed several times and am currently (again) employed, having done residential architecture all of my professional days. The last couple of years I've had to switch to commercial work as the residential work in the US is currently at a bit of a standstill However, I'm very happy to have work As I'm nearing retirement age my focus has been to learn more of the rendering/archviz as that seems like a fun thing to do to make some extra $$ during "retirement".

Re: exporting to c4d

Anonymous — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:10:54 GMT

this is a little off topic, but do you guys export to c4d when the design/layout is final and then do the renderings, or is it incremental throughout the design?

if it's the latter, do you have to manually re-assign materials to polygons in c4d?

Re: exporting to c4d

Anonymous — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:52:41 GMT

...not so off topic. I'm still looking for the best workflow myself. Although I've been dabbling in (architectural) 3D since 1990, it was only about five years ago that I began to do more with it, using FormZ and its built-in render engine Renderzone. I would use a very rudimentary model to develop the elevation design and use as an underlayment for hand-drawn sketches. The hand-drawn sketches with the CAD floor plans were the basis of the prelim design approvals. As the projects I worked on required numerous city and community approvals, it was then that I did the 3D renderings....and yes, I had to make changes to those for one reason or another after completing them...in one case the client decided to add photovoltaic cells to all the roofs and wanted to show them in the renderings. As I wanted the best render engine I could get (Maxwell was not yet available as a plugin for FormZ), I decided to jump ship and go with an Archicad/Cinema4D/VRayforC4D combo. I actually still work pretty much the same workflow, 1) basic model in Archicad, 2) hand drawn 2D elev sketches finished up in Photoshop 3) prelim design approvals, 4) completion of Archicad model 5) this is still in the works...exporting to C4D using either VRay or Maxwell to render for sales and marketing brochures.....a LOT to learn at once. So far I'm not getting good imports as others are doing the Archicad model and leaving "holes"....all of which can be fixed in C4D but take time...which is limited. I personally don't like the Archicad/C4D exchange plugin as (so far) I've not been able to bring the objects/polys in a good order, which at least I can get with the ojb (Wavefront) export where all objects of the same material are grouped as a single object in C4D....just makes it painful when you have to edit just one small part of what is now a single huge object. Gotta run...but that's where I am at the moment. I should add that so far when I've made any changes after a completed model I did it ALL in Cinema4d...great program for the price by the way.

Re: exporting to c4d

Anonymous — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:30:47 GMT

Hello
As I'm not well versed in the rendering side of AC, how would Artlantis-Render fit into, or be alternative to, the general concepts discussed in this rendering thread, (which of course I found very interesting)?
Would appreciate any comments by current posters here.
Thanks
Bier

Re: exporting to c4d

Anonymous — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:50:09 GMT

I suppose the workflow could be compared to Archicad and Maxwell (which is a standalone render engine like Artlantis) with which I am familiar. The achilles heel IMO is that you have to model EVERYTHING including the site in Archicad...because Artlantis is a standalone renderer...no modeling. So as long as you feel comfortable that in Archicad you can model everything you will need in you final render, that would be a good way to go.

At this point I prefer to do about 90% of my building/structure modeling in Archicad and the remaining 10%, as well as all the site modeling in C4D...this is still a workflow that I'm refining. I will then render out of Cinema4D to either VRay or Maxwell.

Re: exporting to c4d

Dwight — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:25:05 GMT

Let me take both of these questions on at once:

Modeling in Artlantis:

Yes, you can edit models and introduce scalable elements into Artlantis files, including sophisticated objects and primitives. Say you forgot a wall - just place a primitive block and size it appropriately.

Or - need to delete - easy.
Need to move something? No problem.
Need to amend something - easy to add an element.

[these things are all new features: convert an element into an object, then it is free to move… and love… as written about by Benny Benassi - who knew that they were playing songs about Artlantis in the clubs]

Artlantis has an automatic heliodon sky and what they call infinite ground to make up for a CAD model having a base that truncates at the property lines.

Workflo in Artlantis:

It also remediates from the original model acceptably well, so progress renderings can be made to follow along with design development.

So why do you need anything else???

I think Artlantis is the feline's night-garb when it comes to describing design, but for guys with more rendering time than productive design time, products like Cinema can deliver better results because they have better [and more complex] surface descriptors.

Cinema is a great program that I have dabbled with for many years, but it is nowhere as fast as Artlantis. At some point you need to decide if you are an illustration artist making top quality work or an architect - possessing the Artlantis attitude - making expedient design descriptions. Abvent have created and refined a very direct way to produce excellent results.

Re: exporting to c4d

Wokka — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:27:09 GMT

adeel,
Usually we do it incrementally throughout the job. We are not just a 'architecural renders' and work with the designers from start to finish. Often starting the mass modelling with Archicad Sketch render/vray combination all the way through to the final photorealistic render. These renders are often used for colour and material selections, so flexibility at the final render stage is important. Thats why we use the exchange plugin (and also why we still us R11 because it still isn't updated ). Right to the very end we can update the archicad model and just re-render the base image and plug it into the photoshop montage or setup.
Does anyone know if the exchange plugin is progressing or when it's update is due?

Re: exporting to c4d

Anonymous — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:57:53 GMT

Wokka wrote:
These renders are often used for colour and material selections, so flexibility at the final render stage is important.

Yeah, I'm more or less in the same boat, doing interior design work on the project. But I'm guessing you do all the material assignments/creation/property in ArchiCAD and just have it transferred over, rather than re-assigning materials in C4D to all your elements?

From my understanding of Maxwell, the real power of the engine lies in the level of detail of their materials, so is it possible to use their materials as ArchiCAD materials?

Re: exporting to c4d

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:22:27 GMT

When using Maxwell Render plugin for Archicad, I first select and/or make my own Maxwell MXM materials, then simply assign those in Archicad...very easy and quick...except the render time of course. That is where VRay has such a huge advantage over Maxwell (much faster), maybe not quite the quality of Maxwell, but that little difference only a few of us who are very visually oriented would only perceive. I've had issues with UVW mapping in Archicad that limited what I could do with displacement, so have gotten away from doing any renders from inside Archicad....but then I/we have not needed "progress" renders, only final renders.

I've not tried Maxwell using the Lightworks materials...does not make sense to me to use one of the very best render engines but not use the system components (like the Maxwell materials) that allow the render engine to produce those fantastic images.

Re: exporting to c4d

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 04:55:09 GMT

Much thanks Josephus
Your explanations cleared some things up for me I just wasn't getting.
Bier

Re: exporting to c4d

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:39:52 GMT

Josephus wrote:
When using Maxwell Render plugin for Archicad, I first select and/or make my own Maxwell MXM materials, then simply assign those in Archicad...

Interesting, I never noticed the option to load/assign MXM materials inside of ArchiCAD. I wonder if there's a way to batch create the ArchiCAD materials from the MXM library that is freely available.

The way I have been working was to export the model from ArchiCAD to C4D, and then re-assign the materials to all the objects inside C4D. So any model updates in ArchiCAD would result in having to re-assign all the materials again, which as you can guess became extremely annoying and cumbersome.

Thanks for the tip though, definitely cleared up some things for me

Re: exporting to c4d

Wokka — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 13:39:50 GMT

Just to ley you guys know.
The R12 version of C4D plugin was released over the weekend.

Re: exporting to c4d

Wokka — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:40:43 GMT

I take it all back.
I just tried the 'new' plugin and I really don't get it.
There is a discussion on the VrayforC4D site about import/export methods for rendering in C4D/Vray.
http://vrayforc4d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=35583#35583
I mentioned how happy I was with the previous plugin (R11) and I was looking forward to the new plugin. I was quiet surprised when someone beat me to it by testing the new plugin. The relevant points are:
1: It doesn't update the previous model anymore. Just adds more geometry AND new texture files that are totally unusable. Any work you do on the original model before changes (and there will be changes) will be lost if you want to use the new model. You will now need to stuff around with all the materials.
2: There tree structure is completely overly complex. Most elements are buried 5-6 layers deep.
I don't know what the line of reasoning was for this plugin, but I don't think anyone spoke to the people that use it. It looks like they took the old Maxonform and tried to re-work it with R12. It was pretty obvious by Maxonforms poor takeup that architectural visualiser or modellers, really don't care a lot about being able to manipulate ArchiCad models in C4D and re-inserting them back into ArchiCad with 5 gazillion polygons.
Has anyone else tried the plugin?
Please tell me I'm wrong and there's a little button called 'use old reliable method to export' that I just didn't see.
This just does not work, so in the meantime it's back to R11 or obj export.

Re: exporting to c4d

Eduardo Rolon — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:16:31 GMT

This is not the exchange plug-in
This is the substitute for Maxonform

They don't work the same. The Exchange plugin is produced by Maxon and they still list AC11.

Re: exporting to c4d

Wokka — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:38:19 GMT

I hope you're right! The wording and description is pretty ambiquous and it was located on the same page as a previous update. I'll have to hassle Maxon to see if the 'exchange' plugin is available 'soon'.
Have you got a link to the relevant Maxon page, I can't find it on their site?
Cheers

Re: exporting to c4d

Eduardo Rolon — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:43:42 GMT

Here's the link

http://www.maxon.net/pages/download/plugins_e.html

When I asked last year for AC11's the only reply I got was that they were working on it. If you see the date of release for AC11's it might be February before we see it, 3-4 months after Maxon releases their C4D update.