topic Re: Archicad vs Sketchup in Collaboration with other software

Archicad vs Sketchup

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:30:02 GMT

Further to my email a few months ago now which some may remember in which I slagged off Archicad and stated that Autocad and 2d was still the way to go I want to modify that statement.

Ive tried Sketchup recently and god does that program poo all over Archicad! Its amazing and its so intuitive and easy to use. Its not like Archicad at all.

So now I am convinced that the way to go is Sketchup for up to planning/concepts and then converting to 2d Autocad after planning. I cerainly dont see Archicad featuring in the future of architecture much at all unless you are a house designer.

I would certainly ask any doubters to try Sketchup and then tell me I am wrong. I know the argument for archicad is its true BIM 'and all that' but I dont need 'all that'. I need a simple way of doing client friendly 3d designs and Sketchup is it. What I dont need is Archicads inflexible and complex object based mentality. I just dont need it.

Ive just done a great looking 3d house in Sketchup in 3 days that would have taken me a month to do in Archicad. And no I wouldnt have then saved the wroking drg time because you cant use Archicad to do working drawings I can tell you that as a fact.

So you see I havent changed my mind, I dont like Archicad as I am a design orientated architect not an IT freak.

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Eduardo Rolon — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:09:55 GMT

NOT knowing how to do something does not mean that it cannot be done. It just means that you don't know how to do it. That is ok because then you can learn.

Nats,

Nobody is forcing you to use Archicad, you don't have to.

This type of post is the " My pencil is better than yours so you are wrong post".

I am not less or more of an architect because I don't follow your commandments.

BTW user and teacher of Autocad (since R12), SketchUp (since R02), Archicad (R07).

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:28:07 GMT

I feel like I'm in a teenage chat-room!

You are the first person I've heard saying Autocad was better than AC in 2D for years! Is it better in dimensioning, or text , or fills?!? Or in dragging and multiplying? I have to check R2008 - it seems they must have made some major changes since R2006!

SketchUp is a wonderful application but it has been made for a different purpose than AC!

By the way, why don't you show your great 3D creation?

I am a user and teacher - AC (since v4.5), Autocad (since R12).

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:11:16 GMT

Hi!

I began working in Autocad version 10. The best version was 12 in MSDOS. Nice version in deed.

Since three or four years ago, I was looking a 3D soft for "making jump to the space". I was trying Arris, AllPlan of Nemestcheck, Arcplus, Datacad, even ADT of Autodesk...

And one day, I found SketchUp. Nice soft in deed! Easy to use and quick in results. I'm using it for showing a quick results for my clients.

And Archicad? Great!! Why? Easy answer: connect 3D construccion with datadase for measurements and, with the great idea: BIM, connects with structural and isolated soft. I decided buying AC just for it: the BIM and IFC. Just what I need.

Autocad? The best soft for drawing, only for drawing.

SketchUp? The best soft for skecthing and quick results

ArchiCAD? the BEST soft for Arquitectural world. The IFC connect, the workgroup and BIM are the bests ideas I ever seen long time ago. And runs in mac!

I know that my comments will be welcomed us, but thanks to ArchiCAD, I made the connection between software calculating structures, facilities and calculating measurements of the building.

SkecthUp helps me teach the idea quickly. ArchiCAD helps me to calculate and estimate the estructure and make a "control project" as tight as possible: facilities, carpentry and measurement project

And, of course, be able to control the project in three dimensions

Regards:

Antonio

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Laura Yanoviak — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:40:53 GMT

masterhabilis wrote:
Autocad? The best soft for drawing, only for drawing.

Sorry, but I disagree with this. I used ACAD from R10 to 2002 (13 years), and AC for the past 3 years -- 2D drawing (drafting) is far superior in ArchiCAD.

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Jere — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:46:25 GMT

Laura wrote:
masterhabilis wrote:
Autocad? The best soft for drawing, only for drawing.
Sorry, but I disagree with this. I used ACAD from R10 to 2002 (13 years), and AC for the past 3 years -- 2D drawing (drafting) is far superior in ArchiCAD.

Completely agreed Laura. I've used a few different programs over the years, and have always felt that ArchiCAD is the premier program for 2D drafting.

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Jere — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:51:51 GMT

nats wrote:
...
So now I am convinced that the way to go is Sketchup for up to planning/concepts and then converting to 2d Autocad after planning. I cerainly dont see Archicad featuring in the future of architecture much at all unless you are a house designer.

I'm not going to try to convince you which is better; I believe as individuals we should all choose our own favourites. But, I don't understand that statement "unless you are a house designer." Do you somehow see ArchiCAD as a house designer tool?

nats wrote:
I would certainly ask any doubters to try Sketchup and then tell me I am wrong. I know the argument for archicad is its true BIM 'and all that' but I dont need 'all that'. I need a simple way of doing client friendly 3d designs and Sketchup is it. What I dont need is Archicads inflexible and complex object based mentality. I just dont need it.

Ive just done a great looking 3d house in Sketchup in 3 days that would have taken me a month to do in Archicad. And no I wouldnt have then saved the wroking drg time because you cant use Archicad to do working drawings I can tell you that as a fact.
.

You can't use ArchiCAD to do working drawings is a fact? oh boy.... From the software I've used (including AutoCAD up to 2005), I can tell that my best working drawings have all been produced with ArchiCAD, and in less time.

I do somewhat agree that ArchiCAD isn't intuitive and it is overly complex in areas.

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Eduardo Rolon — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:22:48 GMT

Nat is not talking about doing anything new. I did most of my Masters projects in Autocad R12 in 3D and extracting the 2d drawings from them in the early 90's. Same procedure as using SketchUp now with the disadvantage of not having all of SU's simplicity of use or Archicad's coordination and flexibility.

Therefore, "been there, done that, bought the T-Shirt and chose Archicad as my main tool".

As for R12 being the best release of Autocad I agree, to the point that I was planning to run it in a Virtual Machine (DOS running under Fusion) but my floppies didn't survive the time trip.

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Dwight — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:10:00 GMT

Why entertain this guy? He's found a solution he likes. And he knows when to use the word "poo".

I was recently consulting on the production of an entire city block multi-family housing project at a long-term Archicad firm. Their new partner had SketchUp skills [but no Archicad] and did the development permit for an entire 30 storey building in SketchUp. A fine job. Of course, on this project, there were no comparative material quantities done, nor any energy studies, nor any serious coordinated revisions made, but the built form was well defined there for superficial evaluation. [My opinion after seeing the produced images was that a skilled Archicad operator might have been faster and also gleaned more information]

However, my observation is that anyone who feels that SketchUp and 2D drafting is superior to Archicad - for a real project of any size - can only be coming from a naive viewpoint:

1: never been close to those who have high Archicad skill - his three day SketchUp house would be two hours in a skilled Archicad user's hands. Seeing how skilled operators work is essential since the decline in Archicad's "intuitiveness" must be replaced with a one-on-one "showing of the ropes".

2: never managed the evolution of a large building project - in the real world, as compared to the fantasy of the design world, things always change. Once you see the benefits of a coordinated model "down the line", making unlinked 2D drafting changes is idiotic.

3: never needed comparative building information - the exact problem of applying Archicad building components that our poster identifies is exactly the liberator of real building from vague fantasy. Needing to manipulate building elements informs the dream, often sadly.

On the other hand, SketchUp is a prophetic application. It is going to change how most architects describe architecture. I absolutely sit with our initial poster by observing that SketchUp provides an appealing bridge to the 3D design world that Archicad does not. In 1992, when I started in Archicad, it had melody. But not now. That melody is driven into the ground. I'm glad that i had a chance to grow with the program over that last sixteen years. Today, I would be overwhelmed to learn Archicad and would probably be relying on some unproductive and superficial SketchUpintounlinkeddrafting approach.

"The trouble with normal is it always gets worse"

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:34:45 GMT

A very nice post, Dwight. I was just going to tell him (?) to F-off back to La La land.

3 days in SketchUp = slow

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Dwight — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:55:40 GMT

Why use 2 words when you can use 396?

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Anonymous — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:30:25 GMT

What are the benefits of Archicad over Sketchup + Autocad.? You can do some poor sections that will need redrafting to detail up and you can use the BIM for lighting, heating and sound calcs, if you put the time into it. In my world we have M&E engineers who do the heat calcs and they dont use Archicad. You can work out lighting and sound very easily with a calculator.

Sketchup allows you to visualise projects in 3d really quickly as you design. If the planning policy changes in this country and we can submit 3d images rather than plans and elevs there would be no reason to start using any CAD system before planning approval. That would be a very good thing for architects.

Autocad does 2d drafting far better than Archicad but thats just my own opinion admittedly. Once I have done a 3d model in sketchup I just dont see any point in then having to model all of the project in Archicads clumsy complex object led methodology where you cant do anything that is slightly non standard without a lot of programming knowledge.

Archicad is a good example of being a jack of all trades and a master of none. It tries to do everything. It tries to do presentation where Sketchup is far far more intuituve. It tries to do BIM - whats the point? Ill never ever need it. It tries to do detailing. But you cant do that.

Its main failing though is that it is meant to be used by architects. Architects are inherently artistic people. And not many are technologically minded in terms of computer programming. The only way to get anything out of Archicad is to learn to programme it. The standard tools it comes with wont even do a house well never mind a piece of architecture. This is why I think it is 'quite' well suited to housebuilders who only need a very limited stock of objects. To the rest of the architectural world its just too difficult to use. Period.

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Eduardo Rolon — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:45:58 GMT

Nats,

YOU don't HAVE to use ARCHICAD, so please stop telling lies.

If you don't have a question about Archicad then go to pushpull bar or AUGI were your comments might be appreciated.

edited to rephrase.

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Anonymous — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:13:35 GMT

ejrolon wrote:
Nats,

YOU don't HAVE to use ARCHICAD, so please stop telling lies.

If you don't have a question about Archicad then go to pushpull bar or AUGI and bother them with your trollish comments.

Since when was this a forum for questions? Surely its a discussion forum on Archicad and its workings. Just becuase most people post questions doesnt mean thats all the forum is for. I'd like to find out what in my posts you consider to be a lie.

Anyway for anyone who is interested heres my Sketchup picture. Its not brilliant but its a start.

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Eduardo Rolon — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:48:27 GMT

Opinion thus false, your opinions are not gospel.
Autocad does 2d drafting far better than Archicad but thats just my own opinion admittedly.

False
Once I have done a 3d model in sketchup I just dont see any point in then having to model all of the project in Archicads clumsy complex object led methodology where you cant do anything that is slightly non standard without a lot of programming knowledge.

Opinion
Archicad is a good example of being a jack of all trades and a master of none.

Opinion and False
It tries to do presentation where Sketchup is far far more intuituve.

False
It tries to do BIM

False
The only way to get anything out of Archicad is to learn to programme it.

False
The standard tools it comes with wont even do a house well never mind a piece of architecture.

Opinion
This is why I think it is 'quite' well suited to housebuilders who only need a very limited stock of objects.

False and Opinion
To the rest of the architectural world its just too difficult to use.

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Dwight — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:54:25 GMT

Stop, already.

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Laura Yanoviak — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:09:47 GMT

Hey eduardo, you forgot:

False
You can do some poor sections that will need redrafting to detail up

With Complex Profiles, our 3/4" scale wall sections need very little "2D enhancement".

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Anonymous — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:35:20 GMT

Well I would love to dispute all this but I cant be bothered.

Sketchup is everything I have been looking for in terms of 3d modelling and massing/design. I dont need a BIM program. And I prefer using Autocad for 2d work.

Well just leave it that for some people Archicad is fine and dandy. Its not for me.

And I wouldnt be surprised at all if it disappears altogether once more people get into Sketchup.

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Anonymous — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:14:11 GMT

Correction :

WE can't be bothered with all this stupidity of a galle spitting l..ser.

Please remove yourself and your face from the forum.
I assume, no, I'm sure, it's yours !

Re: Archicad vs Sketchup

Anonymous — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:35:32 GMT

Hi Nats,

I can see your not convinced by anyones argument yet! It's a shame this discussion is getting a bit personal. Will everyone please lighten up and use this opportunity to compare and contrast the different programs and their perceived ease of use. The more people with different opinions, the better the forum is.

Anyhoo, thanks for posting up the picture of the project, It is much easier to see what your talking about.

Regarding the design of the building, I don't see anything that can't be built using the standard tools in ArchiCAD. What things specifically could you not work out how to build? What were you anticipating would need 'programming' in order to work?

If it was a building shaped like an organic blob, I would hold my hands up and say yes, use another program, but happily your building is very simple. It looks rectilinear in nature with a simple pitched roof. The windows and doors are rectangular. These all are things that ArchiCAD can do very easily and quickly.

Personally, to model that building to a level suitable for planning drawings, I'd be suprised if it would take me any longer than 3 hours using the standard ArchiCAD parts, and probably an equal time to set up and annotate all the drawings and enhance the plans and elevs with 2d entourage. I'm sure it could be done even quicker if pushed! A lot of the speed comes from both having a good set of preset materials, wall types and windows and also knowing exactly what tool you need to accomplish a particular task before you come to it. Trial and error is very slow.

In terms of co-ordination, what happens if you change part of the design? How do you ensure that you have updated every plan/elev/section/3dview that may show the changed area?

Would it be possible to see an example of the plans you produce using the combo of Sketchup and Autocad? It would be interesting to see if there was any bits that couldn't be done using a live model in AC.

And please, this is not a war! We all want the same thing really!