topic Re: Point Clouds anyone ? in Collaboration with other software

Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 May 2011 08:54:37 GMT

Does anyone have experience with importing / working with point cloud files ?

In Autocad . Revit 2012 there is now an integral point cloud import feature and I am able to import .PLY files by renaming the file extension to .XYZ which then allows the files to be indexed and .PCG files created and subsequently imported with some degree of success.

I'm not sure this is even possible within AC14, but I hope it will be in AC15 - anyone know ?

Any info much appreciated.

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 May 2011 10:28:38 GMT

Do you mean creating terrain from .xyz or .txt files?
If yes the use menu Design > Place Mesh from Surveyors Data.

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 May 2011 10:51:09 GMT

Thanks.

It's more for laser scanning of internal room areas, just small stuff compared to large external areas but this method doesn't seem to like my files.

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 May 2011 11:16:51 GMT

another user posted this and I reckon it is what you need

Master Scripts "Mesh Generator"
( http://www.masterscript.nl/01/product.php?id_product=37 )

at the least you can see how he formats the point cloud data to successfully import into AC with his example files

I've held off looking at it pending the Shell tool in 15...

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Thu, 01 Sep 2011 15:12:26 GMT

It really surprises me that Graphisoft is so quiet on the topic of point cloud integration. 3D laser scanning is so clearly an important tool for building surveys and projects involving as-built documentation. Revit and Microstation both have existing solutions in place.

Several recent reviews of Archicad 15 point out this missing feature as well.

We are a long-time Archicad firm and have recently taken possession of a laser scanner - it's fascinating technology. Needless to say, we had to purchase an Autocad license to deal with the resulting point clouds. Now we are considering Revit, as it now offers point cloud support in a BIM environment. We would be thrilled for point cloud import to be available directly in Archicad.

Does anyone at Graphisoft know anything about near-term or future implementation for point cloud integration?

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Sep 2011 16:31:42 GMT

It looks like it can be done.

www.laserscanning-europe.com/en/tv/archicad/laser-scanning-software-point-cab-archicad-laser-scanning-floor-plans-and-sectional-view

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Chazz — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 02:24:28 GMT

Michael wrote:
It looks like it can be done.

www.laserscanning-europe.com/en/tv/archicad/laser-scanning-software-point-cab-archicad-laser-scanning-floor-plans-and-sectional-view

I don't really understand that video because the imported documents show the wall thickness which is not something you would get from most laser/point-cloud scans unless you did the inside AND the outside of the building. Doing both is a lot more work.

My office recently hosted a presentation from Faro and I was stunned by the technology:

http://www.faro.com/site/resources/share/947

Then, a month later while on business in Melbourne I sat next to bloke at a bar (the Blue Tongue in the Elwood neighborhood, highly recommended) and he was the Australian distributer for Faro! --and a fascinating guy. Laser scanning is the wave of the future but there needs to be better ways to deal with the enormous volumes of data. GS must address this area.

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:24:40 GMT

This software is interesting, but it doesn't actually allow one to access point clouds within Archicad. Basically, it allows one to make to-scale image files of orthogonal views such as sections and floor plans. These images can then be placed and traced in Archicad (or virtually any CAD software), however the point cloud is never opened or referenced within Archicad itself. You cannot navigate the cloud, slice it, or snap to points within it.

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 22:11:53 GMT

afingret wrote:
It really surprises me that Graphisoft is so quiet on the topic of point cloud integration. 3D laser scanning is so clearly an important tool for building surveys and projects involving as-built documentation. Revit and Microstation both have existing solutions in place.

Many years ago, perhaps in 2001 - 2003 or so, there was a method to take point clouds from LIDAR, reduce them, and read them in to ArchiCAD via Alias/Wavefront .obj files. The point reduction was key. It was custom written software running on Sili Graphics machines. However, the outputted .obj files read into ArchiCAD quite well and I worked with them. The experimental group doing that contacted Graphisoft to jointly pursue that capability, I was told by the person doing the point reduction. It was dropped as far as I know and they did not pursue ArchiCAD. It was some guy working out of an obscure group called DoD.

Fast forward to 2011, and substituting laser point clouds for LIDAR point clouds, and resurrecting the import of .obj files which now seems to be missing from ArchiCAD -- one might conclude that it could be done. As before with LIDAR and even long before that in the last century with Renderman and Lightscape, point reduction may remain the likely challenge. Along with the will to do it.

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:15:50 GMT

A clarification: While we can save .obj files from the 3D window, that file type is not offered as a choice on the open menu. Perhaps IFC would work.

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:56:56 GMT

The problem with point clouds is that they are usually massive in nature (often billions of distinct points) and would choke Archicad if you tried to import them directly. It may be theoretically possible to convert a point cloud to 3d hotspots in AC, but I don't think it will be easy to work with. Archicad just isn't geared for handling that many objects at a time.

Other vendors are linking to, or placing point clouds in the CAD app, rather than opening them directly. From what I can tell, Autocad and Microstation use an API running along side to handle the importing, rendering and placement of the point cloud. To the user, this comes off as relatively seamless - you can draft on top of the point cloud, but the API, not the CAD app, is doing the heavy lifting.

IMO, Graphisoft should be licensing a plug-in from a quality point cloud vendor such as Kubit or Pointools and baking it into Archicad.

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 16:07:48 GMT

Archicad and Pointools would have been the dream team, but it seems Microstation has bought Pointools (the company) outright.

http://www.bentley.com/en-US/Corporate/News/Quarter+4/pointools+acquisition?bi=homepage&v=offers_pointools

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 17:39:04 GMT

afingret wrote:
The problem with point clouds is that they are usually massive in nature (often billions of distinct points) and would choke Archicad if you tried to import them directly. It may be theoretically possible to convert a point cloud to 3d hotspots in AC, but I don't think it will be easy to work with. Archicad just isn't geared for handling that many objects at a time....

On another level, the problem with point clouds in the Architectural environment is that so many of those billions of points carry little or no data of interest. That's why edge-finding (& line substitution) and vertex-finding, and other point reduction techniques are so important if the surface polygons are being built up from primitives. These operations would likely best be carried out on an initial pass outside BIM software, or by an add-on as you suggest.

Direct fit of likely solids to point clouds, as opposed to trying to generate a solid from a set of points, will benefit from user input. Where that user-input should take place reflects a changing assessment of what's practical.

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:32:37 GMT

Direct fit of likely solids to point clouds, as opposed to trying to generate a solid from a set of points, will benefit from user input. Where that user-input should take place reflects a changing assessment of what's practical.

Both Kubit and Pointools allow for cropping and slicing the point cloud (within the CAD environment), to help reduce the cloud and get at the relevant data. The ability to snap to points then facilitates manual drafting/modelling.

Manual drafting is the way to go for now. Automatic solids generation seems too error-prone in my view. Meshes are possible, but about as useless as the points themselves from a CAD or BIM perspective.

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

rob2218 — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 15:53:13 GMT

very interesting topic.
I've often wondered where can I get the software that would take the point cloud data, and convert to respective "walls, roof, slabs, etc.."

Orthographix has some program that you can "draw" lines on a tablet of sorts and convert/translate that right into Archicad but....if some sort of LIDAR scan could grab the billions of points, convert them to walls and AC objects...that would be the ticket there.

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 18:08:16 GMT

Hi - I was wondering if there has been any progress on this issue - within Archicad or with plugins?

Thanks

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Fabrizio Diodati — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 08:10:06 GMT

Hi everybody,

we are working on a little solution to import point clouds and giving as result a triangulated shape.
It could be really interesting and useful to test it with your examples.
Could you be so kind to send me some of these files?

Friendly
Fabrizio

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 14:38:58 GMT

Those who work in both worlds (AC and Revit) know that you can import point clouds directly into revit. Whats more there is work (at Labs stage right now) on the plugin that allows for automatic extraction of the typical shapes like walls , floors, pipes etc. directly from the cloud. We have used it model complex spaces in a much faster fashion than you would do with any type of measuring with the tape. Especially what you have to measure complex exterior (or interior for that matter) that is few stories high.

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Mon, 09 Apr 2012 15:40:46 GMT

Yes the Autodesk Labs Feature Extraction tool for Revit is very handy. We have been working with it quite a bit and with good results. Personally I would much prefer to model in Archicad, but hey, you do what you have to do.

Is Graphisoft working on point cloud support? Is it a possible feature of AC16? Does anyone know anything about it?

Re: Point Clouds anyone ?

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Aug 2012 21:56:48 GMT

I've been looking at options for being able to import point cloud data into Archicad for mac. I guess the short story is that there are no options.

I'm wondering if the following is true:

1.) If you want to work in a CAD program in the native 3D point cloud, you have to use AutoCad or Microstation.

2.) The only way to bring information from the point cloud into Archicad is by capturing a 2D image (and there is no mac compatible software out there that does that) and bringing that in as a jpg that you can trace over.

Can someone please tell me how wrong I am and that there is an amazing program out there that will allow me to flawlessly import point cloud data into Archicad on a mac and create a 3D model of an existing structure?

Please, please, please tell me I'm wrong.