topic Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion) in Collaboration with other software

archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 20:14:45 GMT

hey there, In my office I use archicad for everything...
6 months earlier I decided to try revit so i had revit 2011 and did some interesting stuff with it, and came upon these points about revit vs archicad

• Editing of shapes/splines (e.g. Slabs, fills, lines….etc):
Archicad: very easy! You just click on an edge or node and a spline editing toolbar appears, in archicad this is done very quickly.

Revit: you go into a 2d editing mode where you use 2d drafting tools (offset, trim, line, circle….etc) to draw the spline or the shape you want.
• Library parts Objects creation:
Archicad: I have to admit first that I had no training in this topic. Though it's very complex and knowledge-based and process to create an object or a lib. Part in archicad. Of course there are objects that you can create fairly easy like simple doors or so, but if you want to add parameters or functionality to you objects. There has to be programming and scripting done (e.g. creating something like the "Partition Panel "that has a number of panels and accessories on/off switches…).
Revit: I'm surprised to find that objects (families) creation in revit is something that is as easy as drafting... You just create a model, add dimensions, link/constrain them to specific parameters and make your object work like magic; actually, this is the most attractive feature in revit along side with it's 3d massing tools that is yet to be discussed.
I can say that archicad is a user friendly building modeler and non user friendly objects editor/creator. Whereas revit is a non user friendly building modeler (as to be discussed bellow) and a user friendly object creator/editor! Very strange fact...Eh
• 3d Modeling
Archicad: archicad's strong point is its flexibility. You can very quickly create a building model with high level of detail and finishing. However, there is organic architecture which is a zone that I cannot cross using archicad's modeling tools. Is NOT capable of creaing organic shapes whatsoever unless with a help of a 3rd party add on like cigraph's archiform.

Revit: wonderful!!!! I only have to say that I can play with these revit's massing tools in forever!

• 3d window 3d navigation
Archicad: 3d window use 'exploration' rather than 'zooming'. Archicad makes you feel like you are holding a camera and going through the model. There is the feature of 3d explore which I like to play with when I have clients in it impresses them and makes them understand the design better.
The 3d window uses openGL engine to enable the user to see raster materials applied to objects this helps a lot with the modeling and decision making.
The 3d modes are shading, wire frame, hidden line (internal engine only)
Shadows are enabled in openGL in version 14 which is great although I didn’t try it yet.
Vector patterns are enabled via the use of enternal 3d window engine.

Revit: Its default 3d projection is an axonometric view!!!! . I HATE axonometric VERY MUCH and I think that parallel projections are best suited for mech. Engineers or some industrial designers, its use in my opinion in architecture should be limited to descriptive views (sectional 3ds…etc). You can add perspective view via cameras which suks. To make it worse; the 3d navigation is via 2d zoom, meaning that you navigate in your model like you are zooming in a picture.
In the previous versions, the display of real textures preview in 3d window didn't exist up until version 2011 of revit, which had a big entrance via enabling not only the display of textures, but also the display of ambient occultation. There is also several display modes like hidden line, shaded with edges, shaded without edges
Vector patterns are present through all the versions of revit
To be continued………

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 20:54:18 GMT

My office has converted to Revit lately, so I can give my opinion. And I think it's very simple. Revit tools especialy for the american market, is superior than Archicad, but it's a pain to learn it and use it,even if you have tons of experience on BIM. On the other side the usability and way finding of Archicad is times better than Revit.

I don't think that Archicad is that far from Revit, and if developers will put some enphasis on improving and adding some tools, and one in a while answer to the costumers wish lists, they should be able to pass Revit easily.

The merge of both platforms would make a killer application.

That's my opinion.

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 23:22:48 GMT

i have a bit of experience helping developing "content" for both.
and yes pro & cons on both sides. AC has the custom user interfaces in the objects which is great, compared to Revit's standard parameter lists.

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 00:21:42 GMT

Very interesting, unbiases and thoughtful insight to these two programs.
Keep on sending the comments..!

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 04:56:41 GMT

first off all thanks for the quick replies.....

• User interface and work environment
Archicad: simple, descriptive, user friendly. I've been using Archicad since ver.8.1. I only had to watch interactive training guide to learn the program's interface. UI is organized into customizable toolbars and pallets with descriptive graphics. I don't have to memorize what this particular text box does, I only have to see the graphics near it to know its task.
Keyboard shortcuts can easily be made for every task and view in Archicad. There are no (can't-be-ignored) error messages, no hidden commands.

Revit: new interface changes introduced in Revit version 2010. Then it's been changed again in version 2011. I can describe this UI changes as disaster. I see myself switching between tabs multiple times to create something that is simple. This new interface increases the number of mouse clicks per task which slows down the process. I used to like the old UI better because it was simple (not as simple as Archicad's)
I hate this new 'ribbon' type UIs first introduced by Microsoft in Office2007 (Although I only like it in Office.) and I see many programs *unsuccessfully* trying to switch to this method. The most things I like about a program is the constant user interface that only have slight changes (like 3dsmax) although sometimes having big changes.
Keyboard shortucts is now changeable in version 2011 which is great. However, not every thing can have hotkeys (e.g. there is no keyboard shortcut for opening plan view or section view)..This needs to be fixed.
When I have this messages at the lower right corner, I feel like I's in some kind of a C++ interface (which does not enable you to continue when there is syntax error). Although it's descriptive and useful; but it's the most intimidating non-user-friendly feature of revit. It only sits there as an evidence that modeling/drafting in revit is no simple task.

• Design modeling:
Archicad: as mentioned not a super star organic modeler. But when I want to build more (down-to-earth) architecture; Archicad is my best friend 😉
Cannot import from other applications (sketchup, rhino, 3dsmax, autocad…etc) as a native feature. I can import .3ds files using 3dstudio-in addon. I can only import 2d from autocad.
I can have section views with segmented section line, though archciad setions/elevation are veeeerrrry slow to generate.
I can save elements settings as favorites.
Revit: excellent building modeler. I can model everything in my imagination. I can natively import models from other applications (sketchup, rhino, 3dsmax, autocad…etc) and have them somehow translated into building elements. This is the feature that I'm dreaming to have in Archicad.
I cannot have section views with segmented section lines. Setions/elevations are realatively fast to generate.

to be continoued

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 05:08:22 GMT

yes i'd say the "ribbon" works great in office, but not as well in CAD/BIM software. It is easy for people who are learning, but after that i think being able to see everything in a toolbox is faster....

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Erika Epstein — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 14:42:40 GMT

sdb wrote:
i think being able to see everything in a toolbox is faster....

I agree, it defeats the purpose of the graphic shortcut when you have to scroll. Faster to open the main toolbox with a shortcut key than scroll.

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 21:36:56 GMT

Erika wrote:
sdb wrote:
i think being able to see everything in a toolbox is faster....
I agree, it defeats the purpose of the graphic shortcut when you have to scroll. Faster to open the main toolbox with a shortcut key than scroll.

Yes in archicad I have the toolbox, so I can instantly click any tool. Whereas in revit it takes at least 2 (shortcut keys aside). I like the ribbon in office,but not sure if it is the best idea for software when you are having to change tools a lot more often....

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Sun, 10 Oct 2010 03:57:15 GMT

sdb wrote:
Yes in archicad I have the toolbox, so I can instantly click any tool. ....

Yes. Thats exactly why we have the QAT toolbar in Revit

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Sun, 10 Oct 2010 06:37:09 GMT

kiwicodes wrote:
sdb wrote:
Yes in archicad I have the toolbox, so I can instantly click any tool. ....
Yes. Thats exactly why we have the QAT toolbar in Revit

yes i see they've updated that for Revit 2011, i'm sure that will help speed it up!

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:40:41 GMT

• HELP AND SUPPORT:
Archicad:
-- HELP and Documentation: Natively installed with Archicad, you can find detailed description about everything; the nice thing is that you can find Interactive Training Guide for Archicad; which is rich and detailed and very important for you to learn about every feature in the program.
You can find detailed example files there. (Although they are the same for each and every version in Archicad); it would be excellent for newbies if there would be something like "Evermotion ArchiExteriors" You can find excellent training material in "Virtual Tutor for Archicad 12"

--Libraries and Object: installed with the program, complete library that has all the necessary object need for every type of buildings. There is some companies that offer extra content to extend the limits of the library.

Revit:
--help and Documentation: must be downloaded separately from Autodesk website. There is excellent books for revit to begin with like "Mastering Revit Architecture 2010", VTC training for Revit 2010 and Lynda Training for Revit 2010.

Libraries and Objects": Must be downloaded Separately from Autodesk website.??!! (I don't know why).there is Autodesk Seek website that I think is the best BIM content download website in the web, it is organized, easy download, has huge collection of industry standard objects (sometimes not only for revit; but for autocad also).I envy revit for something: I find most supported BIM models format is the revit's ".rvt".

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:11:29 GMT

galalhamadto wrote:
• HELP AND SUPPORT:
Archicad:
-- HELP and Documentation: Natively installed with Archicad, you can find detailed description about everything; the nice thing is that you can find Interactive Training Guide for Archicad; which is rich and detailed and very important for you to learn about every feature in the program.
You can find detailed example files there. (Although they are the same for each and every version in Archicad); it would be excellent for newbies if there would be something like "Evermotion ArchiExteriors" You can find excellent training material in "Virtual Tutor for Archicad 12"

--Libraries and Object: installed with the program, complete library that has all the necessary object need for every type of buildings. There is some companies that offer extra content to extend the limits of the library.

Revit:
--help and Documentation: must be downloaded separately from Autodesk website. There is excellent books for revit to begin with like "Mastering Revit Architecture 2010", VTC training for Revit 2010 and Lynda Training for Revit 2010.

Libraries and Objects": Must be downloaded Separately from Autodesk website.??!! (I don't know why).there is Autodesk Seek website that I think is the best BIM content download website in the web, it is organized, easy download, has huge collection of industry standard objects (sometimes not only for revit; but for autocad also).I envy revit for something: I find most supported BIM models format is the revit's ".rvt".

Talking about help, the Revit Help must be the worse help I've seen in a software in a long time. Try to find something doing F1, good luck!

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Oct 2010 20:09:19 GMT

I agree with you. native revit help does not help at all!!
you can only have to pay for some 3rd party training package
"design refrom" website is the best for revit modeling.
the example files provided with revit library are empty files done with laziness..
graphisoft help system is the best for archicad. i think the most successful programs are those that ships with excellent help system.

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Oct 2010 20:35:54 GMT

yes Autodesk are very into "value added resellers",

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Oct 2010 20:36:53 GMT

i went and post this thread in AUGI. checkout what they had to say:

Archicad Vs Revit in AUGI

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Oct 2010 20:42:43 GMT

galalhamadto wrote:
i went and post this thread in AUGI. checkout what they had to say:

Archicad Vs Revit in AUGI

haha i love these things always end the same. Start off good then it just becomes the same as Mac vs PC,
i guess it comes down to...try both & pick the one you like best, then let's prey the IFC gets better 😉

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 05:47:09 GMT

sdb wrote:
galalhamadto wrote:
i went and post this thread in AUGI. checkout what they had to say:

Archicad Vs Revit in AUGI
haha i love these things always end the same. Start off good then it just becomes the same as Mac vs PC,
i guess it comes down to...try both & pick the one you like best, then let's prey the IFC gets better 😉

I'm not sure what you mean. The thread seems to remain civil and pretty accurate so far. It's nice to see more people familiar with both programs and it looks like most are recognizing that their choice of one over the other is mostly due to greater familiarity or simple personal preference.

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 06:00:14 GMT

sorry i meant the way the one was looking on the other forum.....
i agree great to see a constructive break-down. it would be good to see a breakdown of the difference between how libraries/families work for each.

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 06:04:30 GMT

sdb wrote:
sorry i meant the way the one was looking on the other forum.....
i agree great to see a constructive break-down. it would be good to see a breakdown of the difference between how libraries/families work for each.

Yes I meant the other, Revit, forum as well. It seems pretty civil over there as well. I have found this to be true on both sides as long as no one starts flaming.

Re: archicad vs revit (in my opinion)

Anonymous — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 06:17:04 GMT

yes i probably jumped i just saw the: ep....Graphisoft supporters are invading...