topic Re: Revit Architecture into Archicad 14?? in Collaboration with other software

Revit Architecture into Archicad 14??

rob2218 — Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:07:38 GMT

we have a sub-consultant producing a highly articulate existing building conditions in a revit (RVT) architecture file.

I've tried to send them to the "add-on"'s Graphisoft page for them to download and install the Revit Add-on INT version (which I was told by Graphisoft that could be used with Revit Architecture) and when we get the IFC 2x3 formatted database back....well all hell breaks loose and the 2d information I see is impossible to work with.

I can't even place an elevation marker nor a section marker on the model we get back from them.

What do I need to tell them, do to get this resolved???

I've read the threads on this forum. I've consulted out local reseller and I've contacted Graphisoft directly, of which they want to physically "see" the RVT native file for their review once we have it in our possession.

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

Re: Revit Architecture into Archicad 14??

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:35:19 GMT

From what I have seen, the add-in will not install unless Revit Structure or MEP are installed on the computer. Once it is installed, you will need to edit the Revit.ini file to add the external application to Revit Architecture. Like this.


[ExternalApplications]
EACount=1
EAClassName1=Graphisoft.Application
EAAssembly1=C:\Program Files\Graphisoft\Improved IFC Exchange\2011\ImprovedIFCExchange.dll

Re: Revit Architecture into Archicad 14??

Erika Epstein — Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:33:26 GMT

Rob,
What happens when they save out an IFC file without the add-on? There are a number of free IFC viewers including one on the Solibri site to help you isolate if there is a problem in the REVIT to IFC or the IFC to ARCHICAD or both portions of the conversion.

You might also ask them for a 3D DWG for comparison. Not sure how you are working with the revit model, but if it is just for reference, the 3D DWG, which is significantly smaller in size as it is dumb might be good enough for some or all of your needs.

Also, when you say "all hell breaks loose and the 2d information I see is impossible to work with. " some screenshots would help for us to see what that really means.

HTH

Re: Revit Architecture into Archicad 14??

Eduardo Rolon — Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:44:48 GMT

You might also try to get them to export the project by stages, i.e. structure, facades, etc. This way you might find what the problem is.

Also you can download a Revit trial and open the file to verify the translation procedure.

Re: Revit Architecture into Archicad 14??

rob2218 — Mon, 11 Oct 2010 18:59:22 GMT

When I say "All hell breaks loose".....here's what I mean.
1. the 2d floor plan data is not looking the same as the model I see in the 3d window.
2. We need to have the database as a full working PLN (with objects like walls, doors, windows, etc..) working for us since we will be using the database into our existing condition drawings but will need to be manipulating the existing data as well as adding on our own walls to it.

The Existing Condition Surveyors sent us a PDF file and it looks nothing like what the IFC is suppose to look like.
Walls are in different story settings which don't show up properly where they should be showing up.
custom revit objects like some detail work above the doors end up looking like "meshes".
some walls have editable properties, some don't.
some walls you can see properly, some you can't.

I mean...it really is a mess.
When I'm staring at the PLN file, and I'm looking at say the "first floor" story on the project tab, and I place either an elevation or section marker and I go to "open source view".....the system locks up and crashes...every single time.

it's as if as though Archicad has no way of calculating what the elevation or section looks like so it decides to hang and crash.

We wrote in our contract to have our subs provide us with a fully working USABLE file when we import it into archicad....and so far, it's not happening.

Re: Revit Architecture into Archicad 14??

Erika Epstein — Mon, 11 Oct 2010 19:37:02 GMT

Rob,
I noted that you have contacted graphisoft so they will sort this out.
A couple of notes though for future posts when you want help.

-Without screen shots with your posts that allow us to see the difference between plan and model or a detailed written description of same, we have no clue what you are seeing and what the problem is and these will help point us in the right direction.

- regarding "We wrote in our contract to have our subs provide us with a fully working USABLE file when we import it into archicad....and so far, it's not happening." File exchange needs to be tested and worked out. This is never as seamless as we would all like it to be. The testing needs to get done every time as program updates can require at the minimum fine-tuning. You may need to find someone in your office who is skilled at translator setup or send someone for training.

Re: Revit Architecture into Archicad 14??

rob2218 — Fri, 22 Oct 2010 14:32:53 GMT

Erika,
you had mentioned a "viewer" for an IFC format.
Bear with me here.....I'm learning all this IFC stuff as we go along...not an expert like you are so....

But, what's the point of using a "viewer"? What added information will a viewer help with? isn't the point to get the IFC file into Archicad and be able to work with it?

What would an IFC viewer tell me about the file that would help in diagnosing the IFC translation problem?

Re: Revit Architecture into Archicad 14??

Eduardo Rolon — Fri, 22 Oct 2010 14:39:50 GMT

Basically as a Diagnostic to pinpoint were the problem might be. If the file on the Viewer shows the same problems as in AC then the problem is either in the Revit file or in the Export. If the viewer shows the IFC model different than AC then the problem is on AC's side of the equation.

The same reason applies to exporting the file into different files by categories. The columns might be ok and import correctly then the error might lie in the Beams etc.

Have you downloaded a Revit trial and tried to open the original Revit file?

Re: Revit Architecture into Archicad 14??

Erika Epstein — Fri, 22 Oct 2010 14:49:03 GMT

Hi Rob,
A viewer will tell show you how what your translator created i.e. the model that your recipient will be receiving. You will be able to stop and correct what you will be sending out.
Whenever I haven't checked the final pdf, dwg or IFC etc. that I sent out I have regretted my decision as inevitably that is when there is a glitch.

Translating between any two programs is not fool proof. Archicad has excelled at creating translators and making interoperability a success. They lead in translator creation but ,'there's always something'.

Re: Revit Architecture into Archicad 14??

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:35:36 GMT

There is also Graphisoft.com/Support/ifc/downloads > IFC Hotfix Build 3247 to download. Maybe that would help. The Release Notes indicate items that have been improved / fixed. Some bear on Revit connection.

Re: Revit Architecture into Archicad 14??

rob2218 — Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:17:03 GMT

Ok, so for all you folks here's what happened to my IFC experience and hopefully this will help others.

1. Our Revit Architecture consultants sent us an IFC file.
2. the file size was about 60mb- large I hear for an IFC file to begin with.
3. we tried to "open" the IFC file in normal Archicad 14.
4. File opened, but when we struck sections or elevations to see the model in 2d, it would hang.....well, the GS guys told me that eventually it would produce the 2d linework...just not as quickly as we'd hoped for.
5. After GS investigated, they found various "IFC2x3******.gsm" objects.
6. After further investigation by GS, they were able to isolate 3 offending large gsm objects that were created by the IFC exporting out of Revit.
7. One GSM object within the embedded library was 170mb, the other was 80mb and a third object was 18mb.
8. after saving the GSM library to a library folder in my desktop, I was told to delete all the IFC gsm objects.
9. then I was told to sort out in that newly created folder, the gsm objects by size.
10. then was instructed to "delete" the 3 top largest gsm objects (170mb, 80mb, and the 18mb).
11. then to relink that very same library folder back into the file.

Once I did the above steps, the 2d elevations opened and 2d sections were able to be done.

Mind you though, the 3 offending gsm IFC imported objects were no longer in the file therefore certain elevations and sections didn't look correctly drawn because they were missing those particular objects.

But for the most part.....we are going to be able to use the file given to us by our subs.

There some doors that translated a little off as well. weren't really door intelligent objects rather just ojbects with no parameters.

So that concludes my IFC lesson for this month.

Re: Revit Architecture into Archicad 14??

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:32:09 GMT

Typically we've found that the fastest system we can get our hands on, with high memory (i.e., 8GB++) is required to manipulate such files effectively. Even then, it's somewhat cumbersome. 80 MB is not a large IFC file. The shell for a project we've seen is 165MB, with the various "partial mode views" around 40 - 80 MB each. Opening times range from 1m29s up to 40m, depending upon the software being used.

Re: Revit Architecture into Archicad 14??

Eduardo Rolon — Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:46:13 GMT

There are some strange elements that explode in size during conversion and sometimes they are not important. For example one IFC file I worked with started in AC as a 155MB file for a 8 story parking structure. Removed Cars, Elevators, some handrails and parklines and the file dropped to 75MB. Removed Parking lines and Handrails on the only floor that I missed and the file dropped to 20MB.

Re: Revit Architecture into Archicad 14??

Erika Epstein — Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:32:38 GMT

In the round trip to/from IFC meshes become faceted. An example is the pillow on the bed made with the mesh tool, and this enlarges files considerably.

Depending on what you are doing, it can be fairly quick using F&S to replace the IFC'd elements with AC library parts although keep in mind associated dimensions etc.