topic Re: Surface Scheduling in Collaboration with other software

Surface Scheduling

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 18:10:42 GMT

Hi!

This is my first time posting to the forum, so please bare with me. I have spent forever trying to make a schedule that lists various finishes in my projects. Everything from paint colors to tile to steel to wood paneling. It seems that the best way to do this is by scheduling surfaces. Of course, surfaces have no inherent properties. It would be ideal to add things like an ID and notes to each surface...

I know Archicad wants us to use the software by programming all data into elements, but It quickly becomes a data management nightmare. Does anyone know a workaround?

Re: Surface Scheduling

Laszlo Nagy — Sat, 03 Aug 2019 11:40:15 GMT

In ARCHICAD 23, Building Material will have Properties just like elements can have Properties.
You will be able to define Properties in the Property Manager and make them available to "Material" Classifications. Then these Materials will be displayed in the Building Material Dialog.
Hopefully, this will achieve what you are trying to do.
But, only from AC23 on.

Re: Surface Scheduling

Rex Maximilian — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 04:27:49 GMT

LaszloNagy wrote:
In ARCHICAD 23, Building Material will have Properties just like elements can have Properties.
You will be able to define Properties in the Property Manager and make them available to "Material" Classifications. Then these Materials will be displayed in the Building Material Dialog.
Hopefully, this will achieve what you are trying to do.
But, only from AC23 on.

.
You mention "Building Materials" where he mentions "Surfaces." Will this new solution work for surfaces too?

Re: Surface Scheduling

Laszlo Nagy — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 15:14:09 GMT

Well, a Building Material always has a Surface. (The Surface Dialog does not allow you to create Surface Properties, but you can create a Surface-related Property for the Building Material using the Surface.)
So when that Surface is displayed in a Surface Schedule, all other Properties of the Building Material using that Surface can also be displayed.
It would be good to see an example of what DBS would like to achieve, but I think AC23 may be able to do that with these new BM Properties feature.

Re: Surface Scheduling

Rex Maximilian — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 20:17:21 GMT

My interpretation is that he wants to go to the existing list of surfaces and simply add information to data fields associated with the surfaces (but those field/properties don't exist). The solution you mentioned would work, but that would involve creating a building material for the surfaces he wants to schedule, since not all existing surfaces are linked to an existing building material. Plus it involves managing two attribute lists for this task as opposed to one.

I think he's looking for the path with the least bit of work needed; especially since the surfaces already exist and would only require tweaking of the properties (again, if that existed).

Of course another option would be to create and array of slab blocks (for instance) and simply assign surfaces to them. Then schedule the slabs and show the surface applied and a "custom" field for the description in a schedule. But, probably not any less work than creating and editing Building Materials with surfaces.

The scheduling and properties feature is so powerful, I'd love to see everything "schedule ready," even attributes.

Re: Surface Scheduling

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Aug 2019 18:55:18 GMT

Rex, you are spot on with your interpretation. I think of a building material as something like gypsum or brick or plywood and the surfaces to be stuff like paint colors or wood finishes, etc. Creating a new building material every time I want a new paint color is a dumb way of working because the data is directly associated with surfaces, not the building materials. Am I supposed to have a "Red Paint" surface, then create a "Red Painted Gypsum" to pair it with? What if I want to change the color as I'm modeling? Do I need to create a new surface AND a new building material? It's easy to see how this is a recipe for frustration and failure - it's unnecessarily redundant in 2019.

What's baffling to me is that finish schedules are common in the States. A single schedule oftentimes calls out the tiles, paints, finished woods, wall coverings, counters, and so on. With the idea of BIM being so clear, why wouldn't we have this option?

Re: Surface Scheduling

Eduardo Rolon — Sat, 10 Aug 2019 21:59:26 GMT

DBS wrote:
…What if I want to change the color as I'm modeling? Do I need to create a new surface AND a new building material? –

Nope, You just create a new Surface and override the one for the Building Material in the object.

Re: Surface Scheduling

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:39:36 GMT

ejrolon wrote:

DBS wrote:
…What if I want to change the color as I'm modeling? Do I need to create a new surface AND a new building material? –
Nope, You just create a new Surface and override the one for the Building Material in the object.

If I do a surface override, I can't get data associated with the overridden surface to schedule. Important things like color, finish, supplier, etc (see the attached screenshot as an example). How would one create this schedule using Archicad?

Re: Surface Scheduling

Eduardo Rolon — Sat, 10 Aug 2019 23:10:46 GMT

Using Properties.

Re: Surface Scheduling

Anonymous — Sun, 11 Aug 2019 04:20:54 GMT

ejrolon, I really appreciate your time on this thread. The problem is that the properties solution you propose only allows for a single piece of data per surface. I also want to schedule that the BLUE paint is glossy, from manufacturer 'A', and available from supplier 'X' while the RED paint is matte, from manufacturer 'B', and available from supplier 'Z'. That only seems possible by adding data to surfaces and I don't see a way to do that. Nevertheless, you saw the schedule I attached in my previous post. My BIM Holy Grail is to pull that off without having to use Excel. Maybe there is a way I'm not thinking about?

Re: Surface Scheduling

Eduardo Rolon — Sun, 11 Aug 2019 19:19:19 GMT

DBS you are still limiting your options when it is not necessary.

99% of your schedule can be produced with properties, You will need to read on that. It is not going to be easy but conceptually you can either write some of the description in the BMat, some in the surface, some can be expressions that read the code from the surface (If mat has -S in the name then finish is "shinny), some can be properties only tied to construction elements (If slab with material "WP6" then description is "wood planks 6" wide…").
In AC23 you will be able to add Classifications to BMats which will open a new set of possibilities for expressions and scheduling.

The hopeful item is that you only have to do this once and then you can resuse it and that will be easier than copy/pasting from Excel.

Re: Surface Scheduling

Anonymous — Mon, 12 Aug 2019 19:47:43 GMT

Aaaaaaahhhhhh... I see what you mean about the properties. -S is shiny, -M is matte, etc, etc.

That's a decent workaround. It is cumbersome compared to simply adding properties directly to surfaces, but you have definitely given me hope. Thanks for your help!

Re: Surface Scheduling

Pink Projects — Wed, 23 Oct 2019 01:59:39 GMT

Great thread, and one I've been consistently thinking about as the 23 template is constructed. @DBS, have you unlocked the code in achieving your desired finish schedule? I'm looking for something very similar and can't wrap my head around the solutions presented here. Any additional thoughts?

Re: Surface Scheduling

Anonymous — Fri, 08 Nov 2019 13:56:46 GMT

Trying from my side, the AC23 system allows us to create consistent scheduling with some BMat and properties. It's working great. But is it a way to add a small preview image of the material surface ?
Do we know, for example, if the .JPG from a 3D texture can be added into this type of schedule ?
It would be the "cerise sur le gateau" !

Re: Surface Scheduling

kmitotk — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 05:19:54 GMT

@Thomas VH you can add images into a schedule cell. Add any of the 2D or 3D previews field to the schedule. In the 2D/3D preview cell, you can add dimensions and labels but you can also add images there. What I do is putting the imported image right on top of the 2D/3D preview image and use the display order to hide the 2D/3D preview underneath the imported image.

The only thing is that the imported image only exists in the schedule cell and not in the element itself as its property. So when you copy/paste or export the element, it won't carry the image with it, which is unfortunate.

Re: Surface Scheduling

Karoly Horvath — Sun, 17 Oct 2021 16:02:34 GMT

Hi László,

I know this thread is old, but actually that is kind of a problem, right?

Adding properties to BMat does nothing good. In fact it was quite a dumb move.

Surfaces should have properties and Composites and Custom Profiles.

Now stick with Surfaces:

Every single project needs a finishes schedule.

Nobody will create a new bmat for every different paint and tile and carpet etc. We use surfaces for that. Often we even apply images to those surfaces that represent a selected product.

Now that's what we need to be able to schedule:

The Code of the finish (surface) , the name, the size, the supplier, manufacturer and yeah with god's help, where they are used, like: door frames, ceiling paint, balcony balustrade etc...

Re: Surface Scheduling

Laszlo Nagy — Mon, 18 Oct 2021 04:51:51 GMT

Yes, I agree. More attribute types need to have their own Properties, not only Building Materials.