topic Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup? in Collaboration with other software

AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 18:59:00 GMT

Hello -

Looking high/low for where the IFC Scheme Setup went to from AC 20 to AC 21, with no success.

Any help would be appreciated!

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

Eduardo Rolon — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 13:32:57 GMT

File -> Interoperability ->IFC

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

Anonymous — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 21:28:28 GMT

Yes, that shows up in AC20, but looking for its location in AC21. Did it change names? Posting screenshot for clarification.

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

Eduardo Rolon — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 22:24:16 GMT

In 21 they changed the way IFC works and most of the stuff is done now using Property Manager (which existed under 20( and/or Classification Manager (under Options) with this configured then you map out the way you want to translate them. The concept according to GS is that now we have a "native" system for speed and other goodies and then we "export out" to IFC like saving a PDF or DWG. In this way we don't bog down the AC File.
The problem is that this new system breaks down our AC20 and previous workflows. Look in page 86 of the AC21 Help Guide or in Help Center for the new stuff.

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

davdelven — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 17:23:25 GMT

Hello Eduardo,

Downstreaming your answer, what about COBie 2.4 MVD ? When you apply it after creating a Custom Translator in order to get an IFC Scheme suitable to COBie , the only two available schemes are the default 2x3 and 4.

What's new on this workflow ?

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

stefan — Tue, 09 Jan 2018 10:08:24 GMT

There is a difference between the scheme (Ifc2x3 and IFC4) and the MVD (Coordination View, Design Transfer View, COBie ...).

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

Da3dalus — Tue, 09 Jan 2018 18:20:26 GMT

If it's all supposedly handled in the Properties and Classification Manager in AC21, how are IFC Properties linked to non-Property Parameters in each Element?

For example, when I export IFC to Revit, the recipients don't receive any Building Material information, or the name of the Composite, of a Wall. I'm using the "Revit Export for Reference Model" exporter into Revit 2018.1. Unless I'm going crazy, this was never a problem before; those things used to be mapped to IFC data. Now I don't see any way to see or adjust the data mapping. Something is terribly wrong, since it seems the IFC transfer is actually WORSE than it used to be, and LESS "Information" is getting through. It's critical that my Structural Engineer knows if he's looking at a masonry or frame wall.

This back and forth is leading to a lot of late nights, and honestly, the documentation for IFC setup could be written better. It was obviously devised by Database Programmers, and needs to be translated into Architect-ese. I'm sure the answer is in there, but I can't find it!

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

stefan — Tue, 09 Jan 2018 20:47:45 GMT

Just a shot in the dark, but in Ifc2x3, there is only little material information. Much more with IFC4.

Did you check your model in an IFC viewer before sharing, to rule out the chance that the information is in the IFC but Revit does not use it. There are things which can go wrong at both sides of the transfer.

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

Da3dalus — Sat, 13 Jan 2018 23:22:45 GMT

After some experimentation, we found that the "General Export" and "Revit Structure" translators work best. Materials come through correctly now.

Previously, in AC19-20, we found the General translator was never very good, and "Reference Model Export to Revit" (now "Revit Export for Reference Model") gave us the best set of information, including composites. The tables must have turned. Reference Model is now all about geometry, and has stripped much of the information.

Oddly enough, when the Reference Model is opened in Solibri SMV, the composite names and materials are clearly visible. It says each material is 0" thick, which has been addressed on ArchiCAD Talk, but the point is they are in there. They just don't make it into Revit (even using the GS Improved Import).

I'm still not using IFC4 out of fear that Revit can't handle it. Maybe once all of my projects have been updated to the latest AC21 Classifications (note to GS: why couldn't they Migrate into the new Scheme when an older file is opened? AT LEAST assign elements automatically by Tool!).

I still need to do some experimentation to see if the General translator plays nice with advanced geometry like Complex Profiles and SEO's. But for now, that's our choice.

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

Ernest Atanasiu — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 12:55:58 GMT

hello there

please help me out!

we migrated a v20 file in 21 and everything is now IFCBuildingElementProxy. Is it possible to remap IFC properties back to their place? I imagine it's not gonna be automatic but at least I will avoid starting from scratch.

thank you

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

stefan — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:17:00 GMT

Check your Translators and more specifically the Type Mapping. Maybe load one from a default AC21 template which is properly setup?

You can then make that translator "LIVE" so what you see in ARCHICAD is what your model will send out.

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

Ernest Atanasiu — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 10:27:46 GMT

I tried that with no results. The existing object keep their IFCBuildingProxy (as I expected since AC has no way of knowing which is what).
If I copy paste to or from an working file the IFCBuildingProxy stays the same. Object mapped correctly in another file paste as proxy. Objects mapped as proxy in broken file paste as proxy in new file.

I do get this message, see attached file. When I said re-mapping I was thinking of the "Mapping rules in order of priority" option. I don't know how to use that for now.

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

stefan — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 11:10:40 GMT

In AC21, the link between an element and a type can be steered by the Classification. Older files automatically create a default ARCHICAD classification. They are by default, IIRC, mapped to an IFC class.

But the Translator can override this completely with a custom "Type Mapping", which you can base on ARCHICAD elements (e.g. Wall becomes IfcWall, Slab becomes IfcSlab etc...).

edit: corrected small typo

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

Ernest Atanasiu — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 12:55:00 GMT

Thank you Stefan

You saved the day, that's exactly what I was looking for!
Only thing that remains is to select all objects and classify them but this is easy.

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

Ernest Atanasiu — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 13:22:26 GMT

there is another thing, though.

in a new 21 file, the IFC properties read directly from the Property Manager, for example the fire rating. In the migrated file this is no longer available.

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

davdelven — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 08:03:01 GMT

Classification Manager becomes one of the tools for our daily work with AC.

I want to ask Stefan about that --> http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=58830&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=desc&highlight=

It's about the UK COBie 2.4 MVD. Seemingly COBie PSets should appear on the Schema after you set up your Translator as default "Set Preview". But there isn't any COBie Schema in AC21 even though the existence of this MVD.

Any idea?

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

furtonb — Thu, 25 Jan 2018 12:19:46 GMT

uisanata wrote:
there is another thing, though.

in a new 21 file, the IFC properties read directly from the Property Manager, for example the fire rating. In the migrated file this is no longer available.

After remapping the AC Properties to the IFC ones?

It would be useful btw, to be able to see the native properties in a similar way that the IFC Project Manager offers, and edit directly there... (the selection set edit window lacks the option to resize, etc..)

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 06:11:08 GMT

Hi,

Is there still a way to apply splitting rules to IFC parameters or properties? I had a great system going in AC19 and AC20 but now I can't see how do it.

Kind Regards

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

Anonymous — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 06:33:14 GMT

uisanata wrote:
I tried that with no results. The existing object keep their IFCBuildingProxy (as I expected since AC has no way of knowing which is what).
If I copy paste to or from an working file the IFCBuildingProxy stays the same. Object mapped correctly in another file paste as proxy. Objects mapped as proxy in broken file paste as proxy in new file.

I do get this message, see attached file. When I said re-mapping I was thinking of the "Mapping rules in order of priority" option. I don't know how to use that for now.

Hi,

How did you get to the manager rules option? is this screenshot from AC21?

Kind Regards

Re: AC 20 to AC 21 : Where is IFC Scheme Setup?

Laszlo Nagy — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 13:34:00 GMT

This is the answer to the original question of where is the IFC Scheme Setup Dialog.
So this Dialog in not available from the menu any more.
You have to go to the IFC Translators Dialog. In the Dialog, select a Translator for Export on the list on the left. Then click the "..." button of the Property Mapping field, and in the upcoming Dialog click the "Map IFC Properties for Export" button.
It will take you to the Dialog previously known as the IFC Scheme Setup Dialog where you can create new custom IFC Properties and mapping rules to any IFC Properties.