topic Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005 in Collaboration with other software

Graphisoft Estimator 2005

KeesW — Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:27:12 GMT

Is this product available? The links don't go anywhere.

In the meantime, how does one attribute cost to building elements - say $100 per square metre when one draws a slab. Presumably, the Calculate menu can be set up to schedule it properly, multiply the area of slab x its cost, and total it on the bottom (or somewhere obvious and useful. I can see enormous benefits for architects if this information can be easily extracted from the archicad model.

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

KeesW — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:52:38 GMT

I'll try this again. Can anyone tell me about Graphisoft Estimator 2005? Maybe it requires a Hungarian response!

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 04:21:24 GMT

Hi Kees,

I'm not sure which link you mean when you say it doesn't go anywhere? The links on the GS web site all seem to go somewhere... For example:

http://www.graphisoft.com/products/construction/products_and_services/estimator/

But, I admit I would like to see the PDF of the User Guide for Estimator posted there so that we can all read about it in more detail. The short paragraphs on the page linked above are not enough to understand what the product really offers.

I believe that Constructor/Estimator are sold and supported by a specialized team. But, then I see C/E advertised on various reseller web sites... so perhaps your reseller has more info.

Yes, the Calculate Menu can do what you suggest - associate a SF cost with an element, such as a slab, via an associated property object. Or...export an I.S. list to Excel or Access/Filemaker and link in the cost data and math. All to be explained in my forthcoming book on using Calculate... 😉

Karl

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

KeesW — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 04:37:00 GMT

Thanks Karl. What I meant was, that the link doesn't lead to further explanations of Gaphisoft Estimator - eg how one gets it, and what it costs. It DOES lead to Constructor 2005, with tutorials for this product, etc. Am I to assume that Estimator 2005 is not a stand-alone, or Archicad add-on, but is available only as a component of Constructor? The web-link does not explain anything about this - but it does describe what appears to be very attractive and useful product. It has wetted my appetite - and than left me up in the air about getting it!

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Djordje — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 06:45:53 GMT

KeesW wrote:
Thanks Karl. What I meant was, that the link doesn't lead to further explanations of Gaphisoft Estimator - eg how one gets it, and what it costs. It DOES lead to Constructor 2005, with tutorials for this product, etc. Am I to assume that Estimator 2005 is not a stand-alone, or Archicad add-on, but is available only as a component of Constructor? The web-link does not explain anything about this - but it does describe what appears to be very attractive and useful product. It has wetted my appetite - and than left me up in the air about getting it!

AFAIK -

Both are not out of the box products, but solutions. You should contact your local Graphisoft guys, and they ashould tell you.

Both are standalone, do not hook onto ArchiCAD, and the whole implementation and business model is different from the usual ArchiCAD related one.

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 07:21:19 GMT

Karl wrote:
...
But, I admit I would like to see the PDF of the User Guide for Estimator posted there so that we can all read about it in more detail. The short paragraphs on the page linked above are not enough to understand what the product really offers.
Karl

Absolutely...we definitely need more infomation. I haven't been able to successfully glean much of any info out from the content that is available. There was a Constructor webex scheduled a couple of months ago that got canceled for some reason. Graphisoft stated it would be rescheduled but I'm not aware of any announcements about it...Has anyone heard of when this might be rescheduled?

Karl wrote:
...
All to be explained in my forthcoming book on using Calculate... 😉
Karl

OK Karl, now you gotta tell us more...what, when, and where? This is a long overdue document...great to see someone "stepping up to the plate" to provide it! Also, do you plan to cover any SQL stuff?

Dan K

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:18:59 GMT

Dan wrote:
Karl wrote:
...
All to be explained in my forthcoming book on using Calculate... 😉
Karl
OK Karl, now you gotta tell us more...what, when, and where? This is a long overdue document...great to see someone "stepping up to the plate" to provide it! Also, do you plan to cover any SQL stuff?

Dan K

🙂 Yes, it will cover everything about creating and extracting data from the model - quantity survey, list schemes, interactive scheduler, SQL, ODBC and - to be complete - even a very brief section on how the API can be used to get data into and out of the model. Interface with external software such as Excel, Access and Filemaker and more. Lots of screenshots and examples, of course. Coming up with an appropriate title may be the hardest part of the effort!

I'm reluctant to announce 'when' until the draft is complete. Where - will be direct sales. The goal is to make this both affordable and easy to understand and use. We'll see!

Karl

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:50:09 GMT

I hope you will have a thorough information on the changes that may come with AC10, so the work wont be quickly incomplete

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:31:37 GMT

Karl wrote:
🙂 Yes, it will cover everything about creating and extracting data from the model - quantity survey, list schemes, interactive scheduler, SQL, ODBC and - to be complete - even a very brief section on how the API can be used to get data into and out of the model. Interface with external software such as Excel, Access and Filemaker and more...
Karl

Karl,
This is absolutely Fantastic! news. Thank you so much for tackling this area for all of us. Can't wait to see it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you,
Dan K

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:19:29 GMT

oreopoulos wrote:
I hope you will have a thorough information on the changes that may come with AC10, so the work wont be quickly incomplete

Yes, I'm 'in the loop' on AC10. Completeness is the goal. Keeping the reader awake will be the hardest part. 😉

Dan wrote:
This is absolutely Fantastic! news. Thank you so much for tackling this area for all of us. Can't wait to see it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you,

Thanks, Dan! I'll never have as many people excited about this as Dwight does for his LW book, but knowing that there is at least one eager reader is great motivation. 😉

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:08:42 GMT

I look forward to such a book.
And hope it covers advanced stuff.

I think you will be suprised on how many people will be excited.

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Rob — Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:36:18 GMT

finally someone!

I just haven't ever found enough 'courage' to force myself and set it up or actually USE it I should say. It's the most intriguing interface in AC and I personally think a very clunky one.
Unfortunately, I can't comment on any improvements to be made there as I have got discouraged by just looking at that (I think I've mentioned that already...)

However, good on you Karl.
Hopefully your explanations will be very, very plain as my brain tends to shut down as soon as it hears about any sorts of calculations

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Laszlo Drajko — Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:30:54 GMT

KeesW

GS Estimator is not available as a boxed product. There are two major barriers that are inhibiting this:
- Firtsly, modeling for estimating is differentiated in GS Constructor from the architectural model. For the sake of accuracy, there we model everything that has a pricetag attached to eg. formwork for the slab that is hardly concerned on the architectural model. Some application of such approach allowed a constant accuracy of 0.5% on building projects.
- Secondly, each installation of Estimator comes with our start-up services, where we are creating the individualized cost database related to the contractors estimating practice, geographical location and the country classification systems.

Nevertheless, we have increasing number of Contractors with model based estimating. I will send more information in e-mail for you.

Laszlo

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Anonymous — Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:17:59 GMT

GS Estimator/Contractor:
They work as a complete package. I have been using it since December 04. The results from this package are impressive.

On the down side, Contractor uses layers as unique method of separating the costs for the estimator. The results allow one to show a building cost break down in a standard CSI format or in a Methods, assembly (uniformat) method. This is great for cost evaluations during the design phase.

The issue I have is, that now I have this great tool, when my favorite architect wants a quick budget on his latest design, his layer system is not compatable with the Constructor/Estimator layers. This is complicated by the fact that the individual componets must match that of the Estimator data base. The last 'quick estimate for a 4 story hotel (120,000sf) took 15 hours to redraw and 5 hours to estimate. If everything was set up to start with, it would be very quick to price various construction methods as the design progresses, getting owner approval along the way.

I will be working with a local architect that uses Archicad to see if a set of standards can we developed. If this is done, then the BIM system is one step closer to reality.

let me know if I can answer any specific question on Contractor/Estimator.

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:59:52 GMT

Laszlo

As a architect, civil engineer and constructor, i cannot understand that discrimination.

Imagine i ask the architect for a project. He uses archicad.
Then what? If i use constructor i have to remake the whole project with some more details? I dont get it.

I wish the constructor-estimator functionality was an add on to archicad.
What if the architect gives his plan, import to constructor (i guess that is the usual proccess) i make all the extra work, and then need from the architect some changes. If the files are not interoperable then there is a problem.

So please try considering the constuctor-estimator functionality as an addon to archicad.

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:52:43 GMT

I have recently exported my favorites from Constructor to an architect that used it to create a design with Archicad. He then sent me the file and the estimate worked fine.

Constructor can read Archicad files and Archicad does read Constructor. The problem comes down to the order of magnitude you want in an estimate or what you expect from the estimate. If you just want raw numbers for pricing or if you want a complete bill of materials. The later requires a lot more detailed modeling than is typically done by architects.

Bottom line, I believe that Constructor has several addons (Estimator, Ducts and scheduling and others) that make it Constructor. Once these are in place, they communicate with Estimator and the data bases for pricing. Estimator is the true separate product.

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:04:05 GMT

So Constructor could actually be provided as an addon (or set of addons).
This is what i wish. A unified appoach

Re: Graphisoft Estimator 2005

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:16:15 GMT

Getmike said,

I have recently exported my favorites from Constructor to an architect that used it to create a design with Archicad. He then sent me the file and the estimate worked fine.

Does Constructor have all the capabilities of ArchiCAD? All the library+, rendering engines etc.

The reason I ask is that in a integrated design-build firm do you think an design side could use it on their phase and then hand it off to the construction side to do the construction specific stuff?

Dave