topic Re: IFC and the Survey Point Object in Collaboration with other software

IFC and the Survey Point Object

fuzzytnth3 — Tue, 12 Jul 2016 09:41:58 GMT

I was at the ArchiCAD 20 Road Show in Edinburgh and Marcus showed us the Survey Point object and how it can relocate your exported IFC Model to an agreed 0,0,0 point.

Now I'm trying to use it and check it is working but I'm not having any luck getting it to work.

Anyone any idea what the correct procedure is? I've searched through ArchiCAD Help and Knowledge base but was not able to find any mention of it.

Re: IFC and the Survey Point Object

fuzzytnth3 — Tue, 12 Jul 2016 10:16:48 GMT

As you were I think it works with the translator "Reference Model to Revit" option.

Edit:

It just seems to be working now for all the translators. I can't explain it, oh well happy days

Re: IFC and the Survey Point Object

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 13 Jul 2016 00:36:02 GMT

In the IFC Translation Settings Dialog's Export Options panel click the Conversion OPtions button.
In the upcoming Dialog you will find the IFC Site location field. That controls whether the IFC Site Location within the IFC file will be at the ARCHICAD Project Origin or at the point the Survey Point object was placed in ARCHICAD.

Re: IFC and the Survey Point Object

fuzzytnth3 — Wed, 13 Jul 2016 07:04:50 GMT

Thanks for that Laszlo

Re: IFC and the Survey Point Object

Laszlo Nagy — Sun, 11 Sep 2016 12:06:56 GMT

A bit of additional info about the location of the Survey Point object:

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=259737#259737

Re: IFC and the Survey Point Object

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 13 Oct 2016 16:49:05 GMT

And now there is also a clip about it on the ARCHICAD YouTube Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F38fbQ2I0sQ

Re: IFC and the Survey Point Object

Anonymous — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 02:45:15 GMT

Hi Guys - Thanks for the above information.

I am interested in understanding exactly how ArchiCAD 20 is writing and reading the coordiantes to the IFC MVD Coordination View 2.0 file format.

Within in the IFC structure it contains the following: Site - IFCLocalPlacement information. Example below from an ArchiCAD-64 19.0.0 export:

#53= IFCDIRECTION((1.,0.,0.));
#55= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#57= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,0.,0.));
#59= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#57,#55,#53);
#60= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT($,#59);
#63= IFCSITE('20FpTZCqJy2vhVJYtjuIce',#15,'Site',$,$,#60,$,$,.ELEMENT.,(24,28,0,0),(54,25,0,0),0.,$,$);

To date, all the IFC ArchiCAD experts I have seen has had the Local Placement Origin at 0,0,0 (line #57 above) in relation to the IFC Real World Coordiantes (as in the example above).

Does ArchiCAD 20 write the Project Origin or Survey Point to the Site IfcLocalPlacement, or does it depend on which IFC Translation Setup / Conversion Options / IFC Site Location is used?

And on Import, the above referenced Youtube clip mentions: "if ArchiCAD identifies a Survey Point in the IFC file, I will import it as a Survey Point GDL Object into the ArchiCAD Project at the lowest Level."
In this situation is it reading the Site IfcLocalPlacement as the Project Origin or Survey Point.

The outcomes of the above are going to have a big effect on how building origin to origin collaboration works across platforms, thus it is vital all IFC users are aware of how it works.

Thanks in advance.

Brian Renehan

Re: IFC and the Survey Point Object

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Jun 2017 06:45:35 GMT

Hi Guys

I'm not an ArchiCAD user, however, I was able to get a friend to test the following IFC - MVD CV 2.0.

____________________________________________________________

ISO-10303-21;
HEADER;

/******************************************************************************************
* STEP Physical File produced by: The EXPRESS Data Manager Version 5.02.0100.07 : 28 Aug 2013
* Module: EDMstepFileFactory/EDMstandAlone
* Creation date: Sun Jun 11 22:10:36 2017
* Host: 4H1NMF2
* Database: C:\Users\funwithIFC\AppData\Local\Temp\{F550F37E-6A26-4914-AB06-9A16F62FFE12}\ifc
* Database version: 5507
* Database creation date: Sun Jun 11 22:10:35 2017
* Schema: IFC2X3
* Model: DataRepository.ifc
* Model creation date: Sun Jun 11 22:10:35 2017
* Header model: DataRepository.ifc_HeaderModel
* Header model creation date: Sun Jun 11 22:10:35 2017
* EDMuser: ddddd-user
* EDMgroup: ddddd-group
* License ID and type: 5605 : Permanent license. Expiry date:
* EDMstepFileFactory options: 020000
******************************************************************************************/
FILE_DESCRIPTION(('ViewDefinition [CoordinationView_V2.0]'),'2;1');
FILE_NAME('Project Number','2017-06-11T22:10:36',(''),(''),'The EXPRESS Data Manager Version 5.02.0100.07 : 28 Aug 2013','20170118_1100(x64) - Exporter 17.3.0.0 - Alternate UI 17.3.0.0','');
FILE_SCHEMA(('IFC2X3'));
ENDSEC;

DATA;
#1= IFCORGANIZATION($,'Autodesk Revit 2017 (ENU)',$,$,$);
#5= IFCAPPLICATION(#1,'2017','Autodesk Revit 2017 (ENU)','Revit');
#6= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,0.,0.));
#9= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,0.));
#11= IFCDIRECTION((1.,0.,0.));
#13= IFCDIRECTION((-1.,0.,0.));
#15= IFCDIRECTION((0.,1.,0.));
#17= IFCDIRECTION((0.,-1.,0.));
#19= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#21= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,-1.));
#23= IFCDIRECTION((1.,0.));
#25= IFCDIRECTION((-1.,0.));
#27= IFCDIRECTION((0.,1.));
#29= IFCDIRECTION((0.,-1.));
#31= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#6,$,$);
#32= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT(#277,#31);
#35= IFCPERSON($,'Fix','BIM',$,$,$,$,$);
#37= IFCORGANIZATION($,'BIMFix','Blog Site',$,$);
#38= IFCPERSONANDORGANIZATION(#35,#37,$);
#41= IFCOWNERHISTORY(#38,#5,$,.NOCHANGE.,$,$,$,1497182912);
#42= IFCSIUNIT(*,.LENGTHUNIT.,.MILLI.,.METRE.);
#43= IFCSIUNIT(*,.LENGTHUNIT.,$,.METRE.);
#44= IFCSIUNIT(*,.AREAUNIT.,$,.SQUARE_METRE.);
#45= IFCSIUNIT(*,.VOLUMEUNIT.,$,.CUBIC_METRE.);
#46= IFCSIUNIT(*,.PLANEANGLEUNIT.,$,.RADIAN.);
#47= IFCDIMENSIONALEXPONENTS(0,0,0,0,0,0,0);
#48= IFCMEASUREWITHUNIT(IFCRATIOMEASURE(0.0174532925199433),#46);
#49= IFCCONVERSIONBASEDUNIT(#47,.PLANEANGLEUNIT.,'DEGREE',#48);
#50= IFCSIUNIT(*,.MASSUNIT.,.KILO.,.GRAM.);
#51= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#50,1);
#52= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#43,-3);
#53= IFCDERIVEDUNIT((#51,#52),.MASSDENSITYUNIT.,$);
#55= IFCSIUNIT(*,.TIMEUNIT.,$,.SECOND.);
#56= IFCSIUNIT(*,.FREQUENCYUNIT.,$,.HERTZ.);
#57= IFCSIUNIT(*,.THERMODYNAMICTEMPERATUREUNIT.,$,.KELVIN.);
#58= IFCSIUNIT(*,.THERMODYNAMICTEMPERATUREUNIT.,$,.DEGREE_CELSIUS.);
#59= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#50,1);
#60= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#57,-1);
#61= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#55,-3);
#62= IFCDERIVEDUNIT((#59,#60,#61),.THERMALTRANSMITTANCEUNIT.,$);
#64= IFCSIUNIT(*,.LENGTHUNIT.,.DECI.,.METRE.);
#65= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#43,3);
#66= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#55,-1);
#67= IFCDERIVEDUNIT((#65,#66),.VOLUMETRICFLOWRATEUNIT.,$);
#69= IFCSIUNIT(*,.ELECTRICCURRENTUNIT.,$,.AMPERE.);
#70= IFCSIUNIT(*,.ELECTRICVOLTAGEUNIT.,$,.VOLT.);
#71= IFCSIUNIT(*,.POWERUNIT.,$,.WATT.);
#72= IFCSIUNIT(*,.FORCEUNIT.,.KILO.,.NEWTON.);
#73= IFCSIUNIT(*,.ILLUMINANCEUNIT.,$,.LUX.);
#74= IFCSIUNIT(*,.LUMINOUSFLUXUNIT.,$,.LUMEN.);
#75= IFCSIUNIT(*,.LUMINOUSINTENSITYUNIT.,$,.CANDELA.);
#76= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#50,-1);
#77= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#43,-2);
#78= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#55,3);
#79= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#74,1);
#80= IFCDERIVEDUNIT((#76,#77,#78,#79),.USERDEFINED.,'Luminous Efficacy');
#82= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#43,1);
#83= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#55,-1);
#84= IFCDERIVEDUNIT((#82,#83),.LINEARVELOCITYUNIT.,$);
#86= IFCSIUNIT(*,.PRESSUREUNIT.,$,.PASCAL.);
#87= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#43,-2);
#88= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#50,1);
#89= IFCDERIVEDUNITELEMENT(#55,-2);
#90= IFCDERIVEDUNIT((#87,#88,#89),.USERDEFINED.,'Friction Loss');
#92= IFCUNITASSIGNMENT((#42,#44,#45,#49,#50,#53,#55,#56,#58,#62,#67,#69,#70,#71,#72,#73,#74,#75,#80,#84,#86,#90));
#94= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#6,$,$);
#95= IFCDIRECTION((-0.342020143325668,0.939692620785909));
#97= IFCGEOMETRICREPRESENTATIONCONTEXT($,'Model',3,0.01,#94,#95);
#100= IFCGEOMETRICREPRESENTATIONSUBCONTEXT('Axis','Model',*,*,*,*,#97,$,.GRAPH_VIEW.,$);
#102= IFCGEOMETRICREPRESENTATIONSUBCONTEXT('Body','Model',*,*,*,*,#97,$,.MODEL_VIEW.,$);
#103= IFCGEOMETRICREPRESENTATIONSUBCONTEXT('Box','Model',*,*,*,*,#97,$,.MODEL_VIEW.,$);
#104= IFCGEOMETRICREPRESENTATIONSUBCONTEXT('FootPrint','Model',*,*,*,*,#97,$,.MODEL_VIEW.,$);
#105= IFCPROJECT('2rk7FfdVL2HuGMB9IcD598',#41,'Project Number',$,$,'Project Name','Project Status',(#97),#92);
#111= IFCPOSTALADDRESS($,$,$,$,('Enter address here'),$,'','','','User Defined');
#115= IFCBUILDING('2rk7FfdVL2HuGMB9IcD599',#41,'Test Building Origin',$,$,#32,$,'Test Building Origin',.ELEMENT.,$,$,#111);
#121= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#6,$,$);
#122= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT(#32,#121);
#124= IFCBUILDINGSTOREY('2rk7FfdVL2HuGMB9HPowoF',#41,'Level 1',$,$,#122,$,'Level 1',.ELEMENT.,0.);
#126= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,0.,4000.));
#128= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#126,$,$);
#323= IFCRELDEFINESBYTYPE('2TVEfTnFvFUR_g_7hxIN_E',#41,$,$,(#192,#262),#220);
#290= IFCRELCONTAINEDINSPATIALSTRUCTURE('3Zu5Bv0LOHrPC10066FoQQ',#41,$,$,(#192,#262),#124);
#159= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,75.,0.));
#161= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#159,$,$);
#162= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT(#122,#161);
#163= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((4000.,0.));
#165= IFCPOLYLINE((#9,#163));
#167= IFCSHAPEREPRESENTATION(#100,'Axis','Curve2D',(#165));
#170= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((2000.,0.));
#172= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT2D(#170,#25);
#173= IFCRECTANGLEPROFILEDEF(.AREA.,$,#172,4000.,150.);
#174= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#6,$,$);
#175= IFCEXTRUDEDAREASOLID(#173,#174,#19,1000.);
#176= IFCCOLOURRGB($,0.819607843137255,0.8,0.749019607843137);
#177= IFCSURFACESTYLERENDERING(#176,0.,$,$,$,$,IFCNORMALISEDRATIOMEASURE(0.5),IFCSPECULAREXPONENT(64.),.NOTDEFINED.);
#178= IFCSURFACESTYLE('Default Wall',.BOTH.,(#177));
#180= IFCPRESENTATIONSTYLEASSIGNMENT((#178));
#182= IFCSTYLEDITEM(#175,(#180),$);
#185= IFCSHAPEREPRESENTATION(#102,'Body','SweptSolid',(#175));
#188= IFCPRODUCTDEFINITIONSHAPE($,$,(#167,#185));
#192= IFCWALLSTANDARDCASE('3JysU$TBzFkPlFYxvGwmLU',#41,'Basic Wall:Generic Wall:250938',$,'Basic Wall:Generic Wall:250951',#162,#188,'250938');
#201= IFCMATERIAL('Default Wall');
#204= IFCPRESENTATIONSTYLEASSIGNMENT((#178));
#206= IFCSTYLEDITEM($,(#204),$);
#208= IFCSTYLEDREPRESENTATION(#97,'Style','Material',(#206));
#211= IFCMATERIALDEFINITIONREPRESENTATION($,$,(#208),#201);
#214= IFCMATERIALLAYER(#201,150.,$);
#216= IFCMATERIALLAYERSET((#214),'Basic Wall:Generic Wall');
#219= IFCMATERIALLAYERSETUSAGE(#216,.AXIS2.,.POSITIVE.,-75.);
#220= IFCWALLTYPE('3JysU$TBzFkPlFYxvGwmKZ',#41,'Basic Wall:Generic Wall',$,$,$,$,'250951',$,.STANDARD.);
#222= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('Reference',$,IFCIDENTIFIER('Generic Wall'),$);
#223= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('LoadBearing',$,IFCBOOLEAN(.F.),$);
#224= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('ExtendToStructure',$,IFCBOOLEAN(.F.),$);
#225= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('IsExternal',$,IFCBOOLEAN(.T.),$);
#226= IFCPROPERTYSET('3JysU$TBzFkPlFW4DGwmLU',#41,'Pset_WallCommon',$,(#222,#223,#224,#225));
#231= IFCRELDEFINESBYPROPERTIES('3RBGHhgt53aQKrSUwn24A9',#41,$,$,(#192),#226);
#235= IFCCLASSIFICATION('http://www.csiorg.net/uniformat','1998',$,'Uniformat');
#237= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((-2062.8350824281,-8732.14386177323,0.));
#239= IFCDIRECTION((-0.342020143325673,0.939692620785907,0.));
#241= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#237,#19,#239);
#242= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT(#122,#241);
#243= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((2000.,0.));
#245= IFCPOLYLINE((#9,#243));
#247= IFCSHAPEREPRESENTATION(#100,'Axis','Curve2D',(#245));
#249= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((1000.,-2.27373675443232E-13));
#251= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT2D(#249,#25);
#252= IFCRECTANGLEPROFILEDEF(.AREA.,$,#251,2000.,150.);
#253= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#6,$,$);
#254= IFCEXTRUDEDAREASOLID(#252,#253,#19,1000.);
#255= IFCSTYLEDITEM(#254,(#180),$);
#258= IFCSHAPEREPRESENTATION(#102,'Body','SweptSolid',(#254));
#260= IFCPRODUCTDEFINITIONSHAPE($,$,(#247,#258));
#262= IFCWALLSTANDARDCASE('3JysU$TBzFkPlFYxvGwmZf',#41,'Basic Wall:Generic Wall:252301',$,'Basic Wall:Generic Wall:250951',#242,#260,'252301');
#265= IFCMATERIALLAYERSETUSAGE(#216,.AXIS2.,.NEGATIVE.,75.);
#266= IFCPROPERTYSET('3JysU$TBzFkPlFW4DGwmZf',#41,'Pset_WallCommon',$,(#222,#223,#224,#225));
#268= IFCRELDEFINESBYPROPERTIES('3w6nYiUJjE3AdmWpj79D6w',#41,$,$,(#262),#266);
#272= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((5000.,7500.,2500.));
#274= IFCDIRECTION((0.939692620785909,-0.342020143325668,0.));
#276= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#272,#19,#274);
#277= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT($,#276);
#278= IFCSITE('2rk7FfdVL2HuGMB9IcD59A',#41,'Default',$,'',#277,$,$,.ELEMENT.,(42,24,28,846799),(-71,-15,-9,-709199),2500.,$,$);
#283= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('AboveGround',$,IFCLOGICAL(.U.),$);
#284= IFCPROPERTYSET('3Zu5Bv0LOHrPC12_o6FoQQ',#41,'Pset_BuildingStoreyCommon',$,(#283));
#286= IFCRELDEFINESBYPROPERTIES('0NX1KeJNbDygnqG2QnTGhJ',#41,$,$,(#124),#284);
#295= IFCRELAGGREGATES('03SQ5_O$z66vcK327R31P6',#41,$,$,#105,(#278));
#299= IFCRELAGGREGATES('3LHWJn1YX9_BMRsH6rt50l',#41,$,$,#278,(#115));
#303= IFCRELAGGREGATES('3EpCihEZj01vMbhHttz_C7',#41,$,$,#115,(#124));
#307= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('NumberOfStoreys',$,IFCINTEGER(1),$);
#308= IFCPROPERTYSET('3EpCihEZj01vMbflNtz_C7',#41,'Pset_BuildingCommon',$,(#307));
#310= IFCRELDEFINESBYPROPERTIES('2ni3DW0Ez3_gMLkX6KV5g3',#41,$,$,(#115),#308);
#314= IFCRELASSOCIATESMATERIAL('3_uwPZCuj4c9WMzOMq9Hch',#41,$,$,(#192),#219);
#317= IFCRELASSOCIATESMATERIAL('1b149A9OH4EeCBfwDmxSjd',#41,$,$,(#220),#216);
#320= IFCRELASSOCIATESMATERIAL('0ABPXg8WvBafjX4Cz5I0Ip',#41,$,$,(#262),#265);
#326= IFCPRESENTATIONLAYERASSIGNMENT('A-WALL',$,(#167,#185,#247,#258),$);
ENDSEC;

END-ISO-10303-21;

___________________________________________________________

On Opening the above IFC file in ArchiCAD 20 and re-saving as an IFC file we got the following IFC output:
___________________________________________________________

ISO-10303-21;
HEADER;FILE_DESCRIPTION(('ViewDefinition [CoordinationView_V2.0]','Option [Drawing Scale: 100.000000]','Option [Global Unique Identifiers (GUID): Keep existing]','Option [Elements to export: Visible elements (on all stories)]','Option [Partial Structure Display: Entire Model]','Option [IFC Domain: All]','Option [Structural Function: All Elements]','Option [Convert Grid elements: On]','Option [Convert IFC Annotations and ARCHICAD 2D elements: On]','Option [Convert 2D symbols of Doors and Windows: On]','Option [Explode Composite and Complex Profile elements into parts: Off]','Option [Export geometries that Participates in Collision Detection only: On]','Option [Multi-skin complex geometries: Building element parts]','Option [Elements in Solid Element Operations: Extruded/revolved]','Option [Elements with junctions: Extruded/revolved without junctions]','Option [Slabs with slanted edge(s): Extruded]','Option [Use legacy geometric methods as in Coordination View 1.0: Off]','Option [IFC Site Geometry: As boundary representation (BRep)]','Option [IFC Site Location: At Project Origin]','Option [Properties To Export: All properties]','Option [Space containment: Off]','Option [Bounding Box: Off]','Option [Geometry to type objects: Off]','Option [Element Properties: Off]','Option [Element Parameters: Off]','Option [IFC Base Quantities: Off]','Option [Window Door Lining and Panel Parameters: On]','Option [IFC Space boundaries: Off]','Option [ARCHICAD Zone Categories as IFC Space classification data: Off]'),'2;1');
FILE_NAME('C:\\Users\\Admin\\Desktop\\Brian Renehan\\FileOpenIFC then SaveasIFC\\FileOpenIFC then SaveasIFC.ifc','2017-06-13T20:44:21',('Architect'),('Building Designer Office'),'The EXPRESS Data Manager Version 5.02.0100.09 : 26 Sep 2013','IFC file generated by GRAPHISOFT ARCHICAD-64 20.0.0 AUS FULL Windows version (IFC2x3 add-on version: 5025 AUS FULL).','The authorising person');
FILE_SCHEMA(('IFC2X3'));
ENDSEC;

DATA;
#1= IFCPERSON($,'Undefined',$,$,$,$,$,$);
#3= IFCORGANIZATION($,'Undefined',$,$,$);
#7= IFCPERSONANDORGANIZATION(#1,#3,$);
#10= IFCORGANIZATION('GS','GRAPHISOFT','GRAPHISOFT',$,$);
#11= IFCAPPLICATION(#10,'20.0.0','ARCHICAD-64','IFC2x3 add-on version: 5025 AUS FULL');
#12= IFCOWNERHISTORY(#7,#11,$,.ADDED.,$,$,$,1497350661);
#13= IFCSIUNIT(*,.LENGTHUNIT.,.MILLI.,.METRE.);
#14= IFCSIUNIT(*,.AREAUNIT.,$,.SQUARE_METRE.);
#15= IFCSIUNIT(*,.VOLUMEUNIT.,$,.CUBIC_METRE.);
#16= IFCSIUNIT(*,.PLANEANGLEUNIT.,$,.RADIAN.);
#17= IFCMEASUREWITHUNIT(IFCPLANEANGLEMEASURE(0.0174532925199),#16);
#18= IFCDIMENSIONALEXPONENTS(0,0,0,0,0,0,0);
#19= IFCCONVERSIONBASEDUNIT(#18,.PLANEANGLEUNIT.,'DEGREE',#17);
#20= IFCSIUNIT(*,.SOLIDANGLEUNIT.,$,.STERADIAN.);
#21= IFCMONETARYUNIT(.AUD.);
#22= IFCSIUNIT(*,.TIMEUNIT.,$,.SECOND.);
#23= IFCSIUNIT(*,.MASSUNIT.,$,.GRAM.);
#24= IFCSIUNIT(*,.THERMODYNAMICTEMPERATUREUNIT.,$,.DEGREE_CELSIUS.);
#25= IFCSIUNIT(*,.LUMINOUSINTENSITYUNIT.,$,.LUMEN.);
#26= IFCUNITASSIGNMENT((#13,#14,#15,#19,#20,#21,#22,#23,#24,#25));
#28= IFCDIRECTION((1.,0.,0.));
#32= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#34= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,0.,0.));
#36= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#34,#32,#28);
#37= IFCDIRECTION((-0.342020143326,0.939692620786));
#39= IFCGEOMETRICREPRESENTATIONCONTEXT($,'Model',3,1.00000000000E-5,#36,#37);
#42= IFCPROJECT('2rk7FfdVL2HuGMB9IcD598',#12,'Project Number',$,$,'Project Name','Project Status',(#39),#26);
#49= IFCPOSTALADDRESS($,$,$,$,('Enter address here'),$,$,$,$,'User Defined');
#53= IFCDIRECTION((0.939692620786,-0.342020143326,0.));
#55= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#57= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((5000.,7500.,2500.));
#59= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#57,#55,#53);
#60= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT($,#59);
#63= IFCSITE('2rk7FfdVL2HuGMB9IcD59A',#12,'Default',$,'',#60,$,$,.ELEMENT.,(42,24,28,846799),(-71,-15,-9,-709199),2500.,$,#49);
#69= IFCRELAGGREGATES('1m$hgYwzwL8gKraivtX0xJ',#12,$,$,#42,(#63));
#75= IFCPOSTALADDRESS($,$,$,$,('Enter address here'),$,$,$,$,'User Defined');
#77= IFCDIRECTION((1.,0.,0.));
#79= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#81= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,0.,0.));
#83= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#81,#79,#77);
#84= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT(#60,#83);
#86= IFCBUILDING('2rk7FfdVL2HuGMB9IcD599',#12,'Test Building Origin',$,$,#84,$,'Test Building Origin',.ELEMENT.,$,$,#75);
#88= IFCRELAGGREGATES('1zvKi8XxJHXmlRZ_lzZWqX',#12,$,$,#63,(#86));
#92= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('NumberOfStoreys',$,IFCINTEGER(1),$);
#96= IFCPROPERTYSET('0WLqFdnDliFeGFv1M5pkbJ',#12,'Pset_BuildingCommon',$,(#92));
#101= IFCRELDEFINESBYPROPERTIES('2q1Yzqe0hpzgBMGf5w7PzX',#12,$,$,(#86),#96);
#105= IFCDIRECTION((1.,0.,0.));
#107= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#109= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,0.,0.));
#111= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#109,#107,#105);
#112= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT(#84,#111);
#114= IFCBUILDINGSTOREY('2rk7FfdVL2HuGMB9HPowoF',#12,'Level 1',$,$,#112,$,'Level 1',.ELEMENT.,0.);
#116= IFCRELAGGREGATES('22jG3TC2jJ5504t5dAbuX_',#12,$,$,#86,(#114));
#120= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('AboveGround',$,IFCLOGICAL(.U.),$);
#121= IFCPROPERTYSET('0DyKAm4n5ZjBckvLEdzMQs',#12,'Pset_BuildingStoreyCommon',$,(#120));
#123= IFCRELDEFINESBYPROPERTIES('1YZV8ef_ziDjdB61CME$DN',#12,$,$,(#114),#121);
#127= IFCDIRECTION((1.,0.,0.));
#129= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#131= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,75.,0.));
#133= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#131,#129,#127);
#134= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT(#112,#133);
#136= IFCGEOMETRICREPRESENTATIONSUBCONTEXT('Body','Model',*,*,*,*,#39,$,.MODEL_VIEW.,$);
#138= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,-75.));
#140= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((4000.,-75.));
#142= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((4000.,75.));
#144= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,75.));
#146= IFCPOLYLINE((#138,#140,#142,#144,#138));
#148= IFCARBITRARYCLOSEDPROFILEDEF(.AREA.,'',#146);
#149= IFCDIRECTION((1.,0.,0.));
#151= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#153= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,0.,0.));
#155= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#153,#151,#149);
#156= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#158= IFCEXTRUDEDAREASOLID(#148,#155,#156,1000.);
#159= IFCCOLOURRGB($,0.819607843137,0.8,0.749019607843);
#160= IFCSURFACESTYLERENDERING(#159,0.,IFCNORMALISEDRATIOMEASURE(0.7),$,$,$,IFCNORMALISEDRATIOMEASURE(0.5),$,.NOTDEFINED.);
#161= IFCSURFACESTYLE('Default Wall',.BOTH.,(#160));
#163= IFCPRESENTATIONSTYLEASSIGNMENT((#161));
#165= IFCSTYLEDITEM(#158,(#163),$);
#168= IFCSHAPEREPRESENTATION(#136,'Body','SweptSolid',(#158));
#175= IFCPRESENTATIONLAYERASSIGNMENT('A-WALL.IFC Import',$,(#168,#185,#287,#296),$);
#178= IFCGEOMETRICREPRESENTATIONSUBCONTEXT('Axis','Model',*,*,*,*,#39,$,.MODEL_VIEW.,$);
#179= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,0.));
#181= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((4000.,0.));
#183= IFCPOLYLINE((#179,#181));
#185= IFCSHAPEREPRESENTATION(#178,'Axis','Curve2D',(#183));
#189= IFCPRODUCTDEFINITIONSHAPE($,$,(#168,#185));
#195= IFCWALLSTANDARDCASE('3JysU$TBzFkPlFYxvGwmLU',#12,'Basic Wall:Generic Wall:250938',$,'Basic Wall:Generic Wall:250951',#134,#189,'250938');
#210= IFCRELCONTAINEDINSPATIALSTRUCTURE('1ijpJMm$APeqpAEHdhGpwV',#12,$,$,(#195,#303),#114);
#214= IFCMATERIAL('Default Wall');
#217= IFCSTYLEDITEM($,(#163),$);
#219= IFCSTYLEDREPRESENTATION(#136,$,$,(#217));
#221= IFCMATERIALDEFINITIONREPRESENTATION($,$,(#219),#214);
#225= IFCMATERIALLAYER(#214,150.,.U.);
#227= IFCMATERIALLAYERSET((#225),'Default Wall 150');
#230= IFCMATERIALLAYERSETUSAGE(#227,.AXIS2.,.POSITIVE.,-75.);
#231= IFCRELASSOCIATESMATERIAL('2v$FeInnl2pEYfoS3Wu5Ka',#12,$,$,(#195),#230);
#234= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('Reference',$,IFCIDENTIFIER('Generic Wall'),$);
#235= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('ExtendToStructure',$,IFCBOOLEAN(.F.),$);
#236= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('LoadBearing',$,IFCBOOLEAN(.F.),$);
#237= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('IsExternal',$,IFCBOOLEAN(.T.),$);
#238= IFCPROPERTYSET('2cCGRPROiAvj3BdmE7Oh8F',#12,'Pset_WallCommon',$,(#234,#235,#236,#237));
#240= IFCRELDEFINESBYPROPERTIES('3RmGTLGhE44V51yJ66XU2s',#12,$,$,(#195),#238);
#244= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('Renovation Status',$,IFCLABEL('New'),$);
#245= IFCPROPERTYSET('16ueJuWN070vFqmQNIyaz1',#12,'AC_Pset_RenovationAndPhasing',$,(#244));
#247= IFCRELDEFINESBYPROPERTIES('0_w0B$nDw5fSLLHnVdQNG_',#12,$,$,(#195),#245);
#250= IFCWALLTYPE('3JysU$TBzFkPlFYxvGwmKZ',#12,'Basic Wall:Generic Wall',$,$,$,$,'250951',$,.STANDARD.);
#252= IFCRELDEFINESBYTYPE('0MtQZo4ivc5sB2Gx1IulbU',#12,$,$,(#195,#303),#250);
#255= IFCDIRECTION((-0.342020143326,0.939692620786,0.));
#257= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#259= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((-2062.83508243,-8732.14386177,0.));
#261= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#259,#257,#255);
#262= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT(#112,#261);
#263= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,-75.));
#265= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((2000.,-75.));
#267= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((2000.,75.));
#269= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,75.));
#271= IFCPOLYLINE((#263,#265,#267,#269,#263));
#273= IFCARBITRARYCLOSEDPROFILEDEF(.AREA.,'',#271);
#274= IFCDIRECTION((1.,0.,0.));
#276= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#278= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,0.,0.));
#280= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#278,#276,#274);
#281= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#283= IFCEXTRUDEDAREASOLID(#273,#280,#281,1000.);
#284= IFCSTYLEDITEM(#283,(#163),$);
#287= IFCSHAPEREPRESENTATION(#136,'Body','SweptSolid',(#283));
#290= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,0.));
#292= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((2000.,0.));
#294= IFCPOLYLINE((#290,#292));
#296= IFCSHAPEREPRESENTATION(#178,'Axis','Curve2D',(#294));
#299= IFCPRODUCTDEFINITIONSHAPE($,$,(#287,#296));
#303= IFCWALLSTANDARDCASE('3JysU$TBzFkPlFYxvGwmZf',#12,'Basic Wall:Generic Wall:252301',$,'Basic Wall:Generic Wall:250951',#262,#299,'252301');
#307= IFCMATERIALLAYERSETUSAGE(#227,.AXIS2.,.POSITIVE.,-75.);
#308= IFCRELASSOCIATESMATERIAL('3UKtBAlAizBQfMvpu86pRZ',#12,$,$,(#303),#307);
#311= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('Reference',$,IFCIDENTIFIER('Generic Wall'),$);
#312= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('ExtendToStructure',$,IFCBOOLEAN(.F.),$);
#313= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('LoadBearing',$,IFCBOOLEAN(.F.),$);
#314= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('IsExternal',$,IFCBOOLEAN(.T.),$);
#315= IFCPROPERTYSET('10ABt3zXdzBq$hUANsgw69',#12,'Pset_WallCommon',$,(#311,#312,#313,#314));
#317= IFCRELDEFINESBYPROPERTIES('3Pi3RFdACFsnaSl4DfbOWT',#12,$,$,(#303),#315);
#321= IFCPROPERTYSINGLEVALUE('Renovation Status',$,IFCLABEL('New'),$);
#322= IFCPROPERTYSET('17TDtz5oJlIm7X6544XZ3D',#12,'AC_Pset_RenovationAndPhasing',$,(#321));
#324= IFCRELDEFINESBYPROPERTIES('2fZMp5XhawvT6AjuOTIMHv',#12,$,$,(#303),#322);
ENDSEC;

END-ISO-10303-21;
_______________________________________________________________

Re: IFC and the Survey Point Object

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Jun 2017 07:08:28 GMT

What the previous IFC file exports show, is that it now looks like ArchiCAD 20 Imports and Exports IFC files in a similar manner than Autodesk Revit in regard to the IFC Site Local Placement - which is able to read the Survey Point:

The Sample Autodesk Revit 2017.2 output:

#278= IFCSITE('2rk7FfdVL2HuGMB9IcD59A',#41,'Default',$,'',#277,$,$,.ELEMENT.,(42,24,28,846799),(-71,-15,-9,-709199),2500.,$,$);
#277= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT($,#276);
#276= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#272,#19,#274);
#272= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((5000.,7500.,2500.));
#274= IFCDIRECTION((0.939692620785909,-0.342020143325668,0.));
#19= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));

Sample ArchiCAD 20 Output:

#63= IFCSITE('2rk7FfdVL2HuGMB9IcD59A',#12,'Default',$,'',#60,$,$,.ELEMENT.,(42,24,28,846799),(-71,-15,-9,-709199),2500.,$,#49);
#60= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT($,#59);
#59= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#57,#55,#53);
#57= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((5000.,7500.,2500.));
#55= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#53= IFCDIRECTION((0.939692620786,-0.342020143326,0.));

The one error I did make when exporting the original IFC file out of Revit was that I used the "Include IFCSITE elevation in the site local placement origin:" setting, which adds the height datum to the IfcCartesianPoint as well as the IfcSite data (2500) thus in some applications doubling the height of the building.

Are other ArchiCAD 20 users able to confirm the above findings!

I am also interested to see if ArchiCAD 20+ will support a Survey point of Coordinate files up to UTM Coordinateshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Transverse_Mercator_coordinate_system, which can be up to a Northing of 10,000,000m (10,000 km)?

With the way, ArchiCAD 20 uses an object for the Survey Point, does this cause an issue of "Far from origin"? See: https://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/troubleshooting/3d-modeling/far-from-origin/#Why_can_Projects_be_Located_Far_From_Origin

Love to see other users findings and thoughts, and It would be great if Software Vendors, documented exactly how they read and write to the IFC SiteLocal Placement.

Cheers
Brian Renehan

Re: IFC and the Survey Point Object

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 12:03:41 GMT

Is any good ArchiCAD 20+ user able to test if the Survey Point will work in a project if it's, 6,500,000,000mm (Northing Coordinate of Sydney under GDA94 / MGA94 Zone 56).

Can you see if you get any of the following issues:

- radial arcs and tangential lines won't trim or display correctly,
- graphical or view rendering errors,
- flickering/jumping items when orbiting/moving in 3D Open GL view,
- distortion/jumping when zooming in a long way 2D,
- lines may appear to flicker/jump on selection,
- hatches won't display/print correctly,
- drawings disappearing or displaying as empty on layouts/viewports,
- renders are missing lights or objects,

Thanks everyone for collaborating.
Regards
Brian

Re: IFC and the Survey Point Object

stefan — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 12:16:11 GMT

AFAIK the Survey point may have "large" coordinates, but the actual survey point item is located in the relatively small local coordinate system of the project.

Revit has a 20by20km "box" in which everything should be placed (otherwise bad things happen).
ARCHICAD has certain limitations, but I read that it re-calculates the center of all placed objects and thus keeps all coordinates in a relatively confined area (unless you have two objects too far apart).

The whole reason of using the Survey point is to make the world coordinates known, without having to model everything in world coordinates.

Re: IFC and the Survey Point Object

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 11:25:08 GMT

Hi Stephan

Thanks. I'd like a little more certainty.
I've linked a Zipped IFC file, pushed out of Revit 17.2 using MVD Coordination View 2.0. Link below:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/353uzbw4kdzbhv5/rac_basic_sample_project.zip?dl=0

The House origin (internal origin) is in the center of the house, however, the Survey point is using the Ifc Local Placement coordinates below. They would match the coordiantes of a building in Sydney Australia, using GDA94 Coordiantes.

Survey coordiantes should be - E:360,000m , N:6,500,000m, H:250m, rotation of 15 degrees.

#19= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#31998= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((360000000.,6500000000.,0.));
#32000= IFCDIRECTION((0.965925826289068,-0.258819045102521,0.));
#32002= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#31998,#19,#32000);
#32003= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT($,#32002);
#32004= IFCSITE('3lIj7B0LnBjf0mvxk2zve8',#41,'Surface:411452',$,'',#32003,#31996,$,.ELEMENT.,(42,12,46,799999),(-71,-2,0,-599999),250000.,$,$);

Do you mind opening the file in ArchiCAD, and see if it exhibits any of the below errors that files with large coordiantes can have?

It would be great if you SaveAs back as an ArchCAD 20+ IFC file, and we can round trip it twice.

Thanks and Cheers
Brian

Re: IFC and the Survey Point Object

stefan — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 12:15:39 GMT

Many parameters which may interfere... The template which ARCHICAD uses when importing and the IFC Translator configuration. The main choice is if you'd load it for "editable import" or not. As this directly influences what type of elements you'd get: e.g. wall versus object or Morph (freeform static geometry).

You'd better ensure only the Finished Floor Levels are indicated (inside Revit) as "BuildingStorey" -- otherwise all levels become individual stories in the iFC export. I have 6 floors in this two-storey building
3. Roof Line
2. Level 2
1. Ceiling
0. Level 1
-1. Level 1 Living Rm
-2. Foundation

But let's focus on the Survey Point.

From the IFC file, I get following Site coordinates in the ARCHICAD Project Location
Latitude = 42°12'46"
Longitude = -71°-2'0"
Elevation = 250m
Project North 120°

The ARCHICAD Project point (dark cross) is in the middle of the house.
I have no navigation issues (that we would expect with very large coordinates).

Exporting back to IFC reveals that the Site Coordinates are intact.
#8334= IFCSITE('3lIj7B0LnBjf0mvxk2zve8',#12,'Surface:411452',$,'',#63,#8329,$,.ELEMENT.,(42,12,46,799999),(-71,-2,0,-599999),250000.,$,#52);

Here is the export to compare

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c3f1t652c66nv07/rac_basic_sample_project_fromAC20_surveypt.ifc.zip?dl=0

Re: IFC and the Survey Point Object

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 13:16:08 GMT

Thanks Stefan

Sorry for the dodgy levels. The file is a sample Out of the Box Revit file. I did not check the levels before export.

We lost the IfcLocalPlacement X & Y (asting and Northing) data on export:
#8334= IFCSITE('3lIj7B0LnBjf0mvxk2zve8',#12,'Surface:411452',$,'',#63,#8329,$,.ELEMENT.,(42,12,46,799999),(-71,-2,0,-599999),250000.,$,#52);
#56= IFCDIRECTION((0.965925826289,-0.258819045103,0.));
#58= IFCDIRECTION((0.,0.,1.));
#60= IFCCARTESIANPOINT((0.,0.,0.));
#62= IFCAXIS2PLACEMENT3D(#60,#58,#56);
#63= IFCLOCALPLACEMENT($,#62);

Thus the house came back into Revit 6,500 km from the internal origin. Height and Rotation to the true north were correct.

Other than, export to "at Project Origin" is there another way to save out the file. I will need to check back with my Peer I got to do the first round test with round tripping.

The more and more testing I do of IFC round tripping the more I believe zeroing out the IFCSite Elevation and IFCSice Local Placement is the best option for ensuring certainty.

Cheers and thanks
Brian