topic Re: How do default Classifications get assigned? in Collaboration with other software

How do default Classifications get assigned?

Richard Morrison — Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:38:19 GMT

Somehow, this issue is eluding me. When I open a new template file in AC22, Classifications appear to be preassigned to just about everything. I place any door, and it's already been preassigned the "Door" classification, along with the appropriate properties. Good.

Now, I open an older file, and there are no Classifications assigned to any door. I can import a classification scheme (along with a property scheme) and assign a "door" classification, but I have to do this explicitly for every object.

Where do these default classification assignments come from, and can I get these to be applied to an older file with an imported classification scheme, so I don't have to do this for individual entities?

Re: How do default Classifications get assigned?

Aaron Bourgoin — Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:43:53 GMT

Use the Classification Manager to tag element types you want to assign classifications to. Then you can create rules in the Property Manager to add the metadata to the elements and objects.

Re: How do default Classifications get assigned?

Richard Morrison — Tue, 26 Jun 2018 19:27:36 GMT

Thanks, Aaron, but this wasn't really my question. If I open any AC12 file in AC22, the Classification system says "ARCHICAD Classification - 20." Doors are classed as "Door", windows are classed as "Window", walls are classed as "Wall", slabs are classed as "Slab", etc.

I have another similar older file, that the "ARCHICAD Classification - 20" was deleted from, and another Classification System was put in its place. In this case, I copied the earlier Classification system and relabeled it and edited a few things. Here, everything now shows as "Unclassified" and I have to assign everything manually. This is true even if I import the classification system from the AC22 default template.

I am trying to understand why the first example "knows" what type of entity is being classified out of the box, and the second does not. Hope that's clear.

Re: How do default Classifications get assigned?

Aaron Bourgoin — Tue, 26 Jun 2018 20:03:40 GMT

sorry Richard, my bad. The first USA 21 template file had a 20 Classification system. A later hot fix included the AC Classification system for w21 and I had to manually go through the list and reassign classifications for them. I assume the process would be similar for files created in older versions.

Haven't tried migrating anything yet, but hope that the migration will include a re-mapping from 21 to 22.

Re: How do default Classifications get assigned?

Richard Morrison — Tue, 26 Jun 2018 21:39:02 GMT

My example of using a file from AC12 was not a typo. This is a file that was created years ago, long before the classification system was in place. Somehow, AC is able to correctly assign classifications to this very old file, although if opened in AC22 they are labeled as being from the AC20 classification system. However, the blank AC22 template file is able to automatically assign correct classifications as being in the "ARCHICAD Classification - 22" system. Automatic assignments do not seem to be made by AC for any other classification system. It is all a big mystery to me where these assignments are coming from.

Re: How do default Classifications get assigned?

ricki-fritz — Mon, 05 Nov 2018 04:08:22 GMT

Not sure if this is exactly the same scenario, but I had a file where the default "Archicad Classification - 22" classification was not available in the "Classification & Properties" Tab.

I opened a new AC 22 file and saved as a blank file.

Then in the working file, go to:
File - Interoperability - Classification & Properties - Import BIM Content (select the blank file) and the classification system is available for selection/assignment in your model

Unfortunately, this doesn't automatically assign the correct type to the building elements (ie:Door), which was your original query - doesn't look like it's possible (

As a note: For doors & windows assigning a classification would be straight-forward, but for other elements, such as slabs (which could be structural slabs, finishes, ceilings, etc.), this would be more problematic (unless there was a way to map classification via Layers...?)

Re: How do default Classifications get assigned?

Barry Kelly — Mon, 05 Nov 2018 06:16:43 GMT

You can set up the classifications and assign properties to automatically be associated with each classification.

However (as far as I know) you can not automatically assign a classification to each element.

You can however set a default classification for your tool, so as you place new elements they are already classified.
You can also set you favourites to add the correct classification.

To add classifications to each existing element does not mean you have to do it to each one at a time.
You can select multiple elements or all elements (of the same type of course) and assign a classification.

You can even set up Find & Select criteria to select for example, all walls with no classification.
And set up Graphic Overrides so you can do a bit of Quality Assurance to visually see what has or hasn't been assigned a particular classification.

Barry.

Re: How do default Classifications get assigned?

Richard Morrison — Mon, 05 Nov 2018 15:43:31 GMT

Barry wrote:

You can however set a default classification for your tool, so as you place new elements they are already classified.

Barry, I think this is what I am looking for. But I can't find where to do this. Could you point me in the right direction?

Re: How do default Classifications get assigned?

Richard Morrison — Mon, 05 Nov 2018 16:09:09 GMT

I got it to work in the Default Tool icons! (It didn't stick the first time, so I was confused.) Thanks, Barry!

If anyone else is having this issue, just double click a tool icon to get the default dialog box. You can set a classification there which should stay unless you change it for individual items, or reset it.

Re: How do default Classifications get assigned?

Barry Kelly — Tue, 06 Nov 2018 00:57:24 GMT

If you do need different classifications for the same tool, then this is when you need to start setting up favourites.
But in version 22 make sure you use a favourite transfer setting that includes the classification.

Barry.

Re: How do default Classifications get assigned?

Da3dalus — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 02:41:47 GMT

I've got to say I'm getting a little frustrated with the path that Classifications are taking. As I develop our template, I keep stumbling over the mess that's created by having a history of older files. Don't get me wrong, I love Classifications and Properties, just not changing them every year.

For one, Classifications don't default to a particular tool, as is discussed here. They did at one time, I believe in AC19, and before that, the IFC pre-classification typology had an option to classify "By Tool". Not perfect, but a start.

Second, there is no function to automatically migrate Classifications from one system to another. When an old file is opened in AC22, the Classifications only include the previous system, like "ArchiCAD Classification - 20". I see the difference between 20 to 21, where they vastly expanded the system and added a hierarchy. However, 21 appears to be identical to 22, and still is had a version-constrained Classification system, with NO AUTOMATIC MIGRATION.

Also, every time I copy and paste an an element from a past project (of which we have thousands, and we are very dependent on reusing those designs), it imports a jagged mess of old Classification systems that are no longer attached to the right Properties, and there is no way to fix this except hunt-and-peck with the Find and Select tool. This is popping up more and more often, and I am getting tired of fixing it. Does Graphisoft expect us to draw everything from scratch from here on out?

Why is this such an issue? Well, other than wanting clean model files, we're feeling pressure from consultants to provide truly intelligent IFC models. Without proper Classifications, the IFC translators don't work correctly, and BIM information is lost in the translation. They ask why we didn't give our walls any skins (Composites), and why elements that should be extrusions come through as dumb BREP "solids", or not at all! Again, we look like fools for using software other than Revit.

Graphisoft did realize some time ago that this was a problem with Libraries. It was such an issue that it demanded a major rewrite of the GDL structure to provide library migration and consolidation. The same thing is needed for Classifications. Implement an automatic migration scheme. It shouldn't be that hard. A Wall is still a Wall.

While we're at it, can we let the Objects classify themselves? I don't know when it happened, but at some point, the Object Subtypes in GDL Library Parts became aligned with the Classifications. Awesome! It just doesn't DO ANYTHING!

And beyond that, perhaps we can just settle on calling them "ArchiCAD Classifications", without a version? There is no need to change this every year.

Re: How do default Classifications get assigned?

Barry Kelly — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 03:14:25 GMT

Da3dalus wrote:
And beyond that, perhaps we can just settle on calling them "ArchiCAD Classifications", without a version? There is no need to change this every year.

I did exactly that in my company template.
I just created a company classification by renaming the Archicad one and setting it as version 1 (it has to have a version number it seems).
Hopefully this way I can update it if required and then import/export it without having many different versions.

At this stage I don't need classifications for any IFC exports, just so I can use the expressions in properties

Barry.

Re: How do default Classifications get assigned?

Ernest Atanasiu — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 08:54:17 GMT

Da3dalus wrote:
I've got to say I'm getting a little frustrated with the path that Classifications are taking. As I develop our template, I keep stumbling over the mess that's created by having a history of older files. Don't get me wrong, I love Classifications and Properties, just not changing them every year.

For one, Classifications don't default to a particular tool, as is discussed here. They did at one time, I believe in AC19, and before that, the IFC pre-classification typology had an option to classify "By Tool". Not perfect, but a start.

Second, there is no function to automatically migrate Classifications from one system to another. When an old file is opened in AC22, the Classifications only include the previous system, like "ArchiCAD Classification - 20". I see the difference between 20 to 21, where they vastly expanded the system and added a hierarchy. However, 21 appears to be identical to 22, and still is had a version-constrained Classification system, with NO AUTOMATIC MIGRATION.

Also, every time I copy and paste an an element from a past project (of which we have thousands, and we are very dependent on reusing those designs), it imports a jagged mess of old Classification systems that are no longer attached to the right Properties, and there is no way to fix this except hunt-and-peck with the Find and Select tool. This is popping up more and more often, and I am getting tired of fixing it. Does Graphisoft expect us to draw everything from scratch from here on out?

Why is this such an issue? Well, other than wanting clean model files, we're feeling pressure from consultants to provide truly intelligent IFC models. Without proper Classifications, the IFC translators don't work correctly, and BIM information is lost in the translation. They ask why we didn't give our walls any skins (Composites), and why elements that should be extrusions come through as dumb BREP "solids", or not at all! Again, we look like fools for using software other than Revit.

Graphisoft did realize some time ago that this was a problem with Libraries. It was such an issue that it demanded a major rewrite of the GDL structure to provide library migration and consolidation. The same thing is needed for Classifications. Implement an automatic migration scheme. It shouldn't be that hard. A Wall is still a Wall.

While we're at it, can we let the Objects classify themselves? I don't know when it happened, but at some point, the Object Subtypes in GDL Library Parts became aligned with the Classifications. Awesome! It just doesn't DO ANYTHING!

And beyond that, perhaps we can just settle on calling them "ArchiCAD Classifications", without a version? There is no need to change this every year.

Totally agree here. I am developing internal templates here and because of Classifications I have to start from scratch each time. There should be an integrated tool for automatically assigning and re-assigning Classifications and Properties based on user-defined criteria. If it was possible for Library Objects, it should be easier at least for the default AC Classification. Next step: also make it possible for BIM Content packages (UniFormat, Omniclass etc).

Re: How do default Classifications get assigned?

Daniel Kovacs — Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:48:46 GMT

Da3dalus wrote:
I've got to say I'm getting a little frustrated with the path that Classifications are taking. As I develop our template, I keep stumbling over the mess that's created by having a history of older files. Don't get me wrong, I love Classifications and Properties, just not changing them every year.

For one, Classifications don't default to a particular tool, as is discussed here. They did at one time, I believe in AC19, and before that, the IFC pre-classification typology had an option to classify "By Tool". Not perfect, but a start.
...

Hello Da3dalus,

Thanks for the detailed input (it is always helpful to see the whole story behind something one asks for). It would indeed be cool if a certain kind of mapping could be set up for migration, so I relayed this to the Product Managers.

But since we don't have such a feature right now, let me just pitch a few ideas about how to handle these issues:

First of all (as Barry said it before), the classifications are part of the settings of each element, which can be saved in 2 ways: as the default setting of a tool, or as a favorite.
If you change the classification in the default settings, then until you change it again, every new element you place with that tool will have that classification. If you have several classifications you use with a specific tool, it is a good idea to save a few of these defaults as favorites, and change between them when you want a certain type of element with a certain classification. These are saved into the template.
In this regard the object tool is special, though it works similarly. Since you can place almost any kind of element as an object (structure, furniture, MEP, etc.), it is not enough to have a single default that would apply to all objects you place. So whenever you switch to a different object in the object tool, you will notice that it changes classification automatically. That is because in this case the classification is not tied to the object tool default settings, it is tied to the subtype of an object. So if you switch to an object whose subtype is Beam, the classification will switch to Beam as well.
If you wish to change that, simply select any object from a certain subtype (e.g. a beam), and change the classification to anything you want it to be. From that point on every object with this subtype will get this classification by default.
This is also saved into the template/project.
The version number is highlighted in the default ARCHICAD classification name, because there can easily be minor or major changes from version to version in the templates (it happened 20->21 but nothing changed 21->22). This always depends on the feature set of each version, so to avoid clashes between the classifications of each version, they are separated by the numbers.
Also, you are free to modify them as well, so if you were to add the AC22 classification system to a project you did in AC21, there might easily be changes in the classification system that we didn't create, so we wouldn't know how to handle.
But if you migrate a project, it will keep its original classification, and the corresponding properties, so the only thing that should be set up from scratch are the tools that didn't exist in the previous version.
If you want to reclassify your old project to the new version's classifications anyways, or you would want to copy elements from earlier versions for your new project I think the best workflow might be to rename the classification system from AC21 to AC22, migrate the project to the new version, export the AC22 classification from your own template (Including the properties) and import it to the migrated project. This will find the matching classifications, overwrite them, and keep the connection to the right properties.

I hope this info will help you get along with classifications better. If there's anything you disagree with, or you just have questions, let me know, and we will try to figure it out together. : )

Regards,