topic Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1) in Collaboration with other software

Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

stefan — Thu, 08 Sep 2005 06:58:52 GMT

The wrote:
Main Improvements in Revit Building 8.1:
Considering that it is just a point release, Revit Building 8.1 packs a surprising number of new features. To start with, it enhances the Building Maker functionality for conceptual design mentioned in the previous section by enabling the import of NURBS surfaces from other applications in the form of DWG or SAT files. These can be turned into mass objects in Building Maker, after which you can create roofs, walls, floors, and curtain systems from selected faces (see Figure 5-a). A separate but related ability is the creation of non-vertical walls from massing components, created within Revit Building or imported from other applications (see Figure 5-b). These non-vertical walls behave like the regular walls: you can place doors and windows in them; they can be joined to other walls; they appear properly cut in plan views; they are correctly listed in schedules; and they can be exported along with their information to ODBC and other formats. Considering that Revit Building lacks a good set of freeform modeling tools, these new capabilities make it easier to bring conceptual massing models created in other applications into Revit Building and convert them into building models rather than having to start from scratch.
http://www.aecbytes.com/review/RevitBuilding8.htm

This would interest many people in the discussion around MaxonForm.

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Anonymous — Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:48:15 GMT

Unfortunately Revit is developing much faster than Archicad.
And we had that "unfortunate" AC 9 which brought us zero new tools.

Very dissapointing

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Rob — Thu, 08 Sep 2005 11:33:10 GMT

hmmm, it makes me wonder if Revit team ain't reading AC forum by mistake.

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Anonymous — Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:34:55 GMT

I told you so ......
I should have known better......
It will cost me .......

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

TomWaltz — Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:43:13 GMT

oreopoulos wrote:
Unfortunately Revit is developing much faster than Archicad.
And we had that "unfortunate" AC 9 which brought us zero new tools.

Very dissapointing

Wasn't "Wall End" new in AC 9? 😉 Or was that 8.1?

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Anonymous — Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:52:02 GMT

it was 8.1

Even if it was in 9 it is still dissapointing.
V10 has to provide new tools for 2 editions (for the missing v9)

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

stefan — Thu, 08 Sep 2005 18:23:51 GMT

oreopoulos wrote:
it was 8.1

Even if it was in 9 it is still dissapointing.
V10 has to provide new tools for 2 editions (for the missing v9)

Are you placing all your bets on a release that might not be the one you are waiting for? Frankly, new tools come with new bugs, limits and workarounds/hacks. We allready have some of this "not quite fully there"-tools at the moment. Will you switch if r10 disappoints you?

ArchiCAD has it's strong points and it's weak points. But as long as you can get your work done in a timely fashion, it is still a tool you can use. If it's not, then you might try the Revit demo. Not all is better on the other side, though... The article doesn't forget the weaknesses. And if you use a Mac, you have to switch platforms too, which is not obvious.

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Anonymous — Thu, 08 Sep 2005 19:04:29 GMT

If AC10 dissapoint me (in terms of quantity and quality of new tools) i will have to swich to a new software. Revit? allplan i dont know but i am really mad with v9 (i was from day 1 and still am).
I cannot wait 2 more years for obvious tools that should have been here from V1.

Look at the layer management. If you add a new layer you have to update every combination one by one (and not select all those that the layer is locked ie and lock at once)
Look at how we build walls. We cannot define hatch in sections and we cannot show a wall in all selected floors and and ... And all these are BASIC functions. To ask for smthg advanced i must have all basic tools provided.

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Anonymous — Thu, 08 Sep 2005 19:31:37 GMT

So what is a new "tool"?.. If varied height wall veneers is a "tool", then new tools must be on the buffett.. try inserting a 28/52 twin window properly labeled... some of these horses have been dead so long their dust has blown away.. I am relatively new to AC so a wierd irony is a move will pain me less.

Something about big companies always causes me to buy from the smaller outfits, but I am slowly migrating to the "never got fired for buying IBM" crowd.... heck, even XP Pro is eerily stable these days.. Huge resources and even the slightest of wills to improve can go a looong way. Microsoft! care to get into the hyper-growth BIM sector??.. I won't whish too hard though<g>

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Rob — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 01:49:57 GMT

Are you placing all your bets on a release that might not be the one you are waiting for?

well, at least it will force me to think about my future skills knowing that there is a better CAD with better efficiency/potential and I will eventually have to try and learn it...users either potential or current will move on, simple as that

Frankly, new tools come with new bugs, limits and workarounds/hacks. We allready have some of this "not quite fully there"-tools at the moment. Will you switch if r10 disappoints you?

It's sad that we are already 'prepared' for a buggy outcome with new AC versions. Just a question for myself - is this normal thinking with any software? There should not be any bloody bugs - that's what we are paying for, I suppose...

ArchiCAD has it's strong points and it's weak points. But as long as you can get your work done in a timely fashion, it is still a tool you can use. If it's not, then you might try the Revit demo. Not all is better on the other side, though... The article doesn't forget the weaknesses. And if you use a Mac, you have to switch platforms too, which is not obvious

that's all right but Revit's progress is really full on while we are still debating over 10 years old wishes (in some cases). Would you have given darn about Revit, let's say 4-5 years ago as a serious competition to any AEC CAD? AC has been here for over 20 years and in my opinion it's getting beaten up at the moment. Relying on Mac platform as the only serious AEC solution there and using that as an argument is honestly weak as piss.

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Djordje — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 06:42:45 GMT

oreopoulos wrote:
it was 8.1

Even if it was in 9 it is still dissapointing.
V10 has to provide new tools for 2 editions (for the missing v9)

I would settle for zero new TOOLS, if the productivity and the work environment were enhanced, and the existing tools were polished and worked 350%.

What is the point of piling features?

BTW, you "just" got a new rendering engine in 9 ... not much, really ...

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 06:59:56 GMT

Djordje i did not buy Archicad to render.
I have other much better tools for that.
If i cannot build, then i dont care about rendering.

And about tools.
It depends on how you define tools.
For example, adding hotspots in a wall that would allow to edit its profile is a new tool or a productivity one? Adding hatch options for section? Option to control visibility of compotite materials? I count them as new tools. You may tell them enhancment. The bottom line is that there are many many basic.
We are on V9 and i cannot create irregular shaped columns!!!! Curved beams. Arent those basic tools?

Anyway. I personally i am very dissapointed from the progress of archicad.
I dont know how many share the same opinion. I really like some features of archicad, but for a product that is for so long in the market , it lacks so many basic features.

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

stefan — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:38:01 GMT

Rob wrote:
It's sad that we are already 'prepared' for a buggy outcome with new AC versions. Just a question for myself - is this normal thinking with any software? There should not be any bloody bugs - that's what we are paying for, I suppose...

There is no bug-free software. Not with this complexity. Maybe MS Notepad is more or less stable 😉 AutoCAD has many, many bugs. They all do. If you want to pay twice the license price and wait three or four more years for the next release, chances are it'll be better. But no customer will keep waiting.

Rob wrote:
that's all right but Revit's progress is really full on while we are still debating over 10 years old wishes (in some cases). Would you have given darn about Revit, let's say 4-5 years ago as a serious competition to any AEC CAD? AC has been here for over 20 years and in my opinion it's getting beaten up at the moment. Relying on Mac platform as the only serious AEC solution there and using that as an argument is honestly weak as piss.

I have seen Revit in release 2.0 and it appealed right away, up to any competition at the time. There was no Belgian distributor, back then (and besides, I allready bought ArchiCAD 6.o a year or so before, IIRC).

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Rakela Raul — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:00:00 GMT

Anyway. I personally i am very dissapointed from the progress of archicad.
I dont know how many share the same opinion. I really like some features of archicad, but for a product that is for so long in the market , it lacks so many basic features

just add a few features/accessories that are basic, enhance what its has and make it work like a clock......personally i dont like alot of tools that i would never use, streamline, clean, smooth, not overwhelming is the way to go for me......
furthermore: have you check on revit? i agree with you about the progress but i have checking on revit and i wouldnt buy it yet..not my taste (of course taste is a personal thing and not to be discussed)...

i would rather much better see an engine like microstation with an ac interface

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:59:43 GMT

Rakela

For example look at the example Petros gave about an auditorium.
Its a real shame that Archicad cannot handle stuff like that. (and much more)

For example i use SEO a lot. But its a nightmare. You want to move the operator and you have to move the operand as well. So many things....

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Rakela Raul — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:06:51 GMT

thats why i said:
"an engine like microstation" = full 3D

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:27:18 GMT

Just a note from the other side of the fence... Revit Building 8.1 does offer some new geometries to Revit users, but if it's "blobby" geometry you still can't use Revit to create it. It can merely import it, though you will be able to section and schedule the imported volumes. And we can create multi-material sloped walls now, but you have to skin them onto the face of a massing object (a solid you create using Revit's rudimentary modeling tools).

Revit is a solids modeler, and the founders/programmers are not at all intimidated by creating blobby forms; the kernel can evidently handle it but there are at present no modeling tools to create such forms inside Revit. One of the programmers told me, in his thick accent, that such forms 'are child's play... it is just a matter of time'. But the user wishlist places such tools some distance down the list, so it may be years before these tools see the light of day.

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Ignacio Azpiazu — Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:22:20 GMT

metanoia wrote:
it may be years before these tools see the light of day.

Awwww man. I am one of the very happy with the changes in AC 9 --the very many little changes that make using a program a much more beautiful and productive experience than using the then only one-year-old 8.1, the remarkably solid initial release (as opposed to the catastrophic release of AC 8 Mac), and even the sudden burst of library upgrades after years of getting program upgrades with new libraries created by renaming prehistoric code.

I suspect that the change in attitude (reflected even in Graphisoft setting up these forums, after years of user-only-managed and Graphisoft-mostly-ignored mail lists) ultimately has to do with the Autodesk Revit move. 'Uh oh, guys, gotta get moving, and can't afford glitches from now on'.

So it will be highly beneficial for the ArchiCAD community if there are rumors out there that Revit is preparing incredibly wonderful stuff with freeform and calculation and engineering integration and everything. Please don't say any of these things may still be years down the road. : )

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

stefan — Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:01:37 GMT

What I find amazing is, even though Revit can't model these free forms, it is able to incorporate them into the building model and make use of them: providing this geometry with Building Information.

Re: Freeform Modelling (and Revit 8.1)

Chazz — Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:38:43 GMT

History has a way of repeating itself. There is an eery similarity between the early 1990's and the current situation in the architectural CAD market. Back then, when I was looking to crawl out of the flatland of 2D, there were only two choices in architecture-specific 3d CAD (at least on the Mac): a French package called Architura and ArchiCAD (version 3.x). The French tool had a lot of advantages and appeared more mature -though both had strange interfaces. In fact, Architura could do things that ArchiCAD could not for a decade at least. However, it was clear to anyone paying attention (and I was) that ArchiCAD had the MOMENTUM, the true BIM vision and a real commitment to the US market -intangibles that don't always show up in a simple software demo. Of course Graphisoft won and Architura is gone. My current thinking is that Revit is the new ArchiCAD and ArchiCAD 9/10 is the new Architura.

While GS was struggling to legitimize the idea of BIM (which it did successfully after a long schlog), Revit was looking at what was next. They now have the momentum (not to mention the considerable financial resources of Autodesk). Perhaps more importantly, they have an astronomical user base all lined up to migrate. The writing is clearly on the wall. Even if ArchiCAD was obviously better, GS would be looking at an uphill battle. Instead, GS lost a lot of ground and credibility dicking around with the 8.0 fiasco and Revit has gained in very real ways. As a tool, ArchiCAD feels so old. Selecting fills and composites from lots of teensy weensy tiny little square boxes seemed like prudent software design when viewed on the 9" B&W screen of a Mac SE but it looses a lot of its novelty on a 20" LCD. In fact, I'm astonished at how much of the interface has survived over the years -even after the port to Wintel. Wasn't 8.0 supposed to be "new from the ground up"? Don't you believe it baby. It's the malignant legacy code that eventually kills these giant software beasts......

I just wish Revit would write a version for OSX -another piece of software with momentum.