topic Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing? in Collaboration with other software

Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

Nathan Hildebrandt — Sat, 29 Oct 2022 04:36:22 GMT

I thought I would share with the community one of my recent articles on my thoughts on Digital Twins. There has been a lot of marketing over the last couple of years from software vendors pushing their solutions as Digital Twins. Have a read of my article and let me know whether you are being impacted by this yet from your clients.

https://www.skewed.com.au/blog/digital-twins-%E2%80%93-latest-marketing-catch-phrase#.Y1ytDHZBwmA

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

mthd — Sun, 30 Oct 2022 02:42:44 GMT

As with any analogy, it can mean what you want it to mean and the meaning can change over time.

My first thought was, this is about two BIM CAD software packages that lead the market but I think I am off track with my interpretation ?

I think it’s a bit like a phrase in a song and it can mean different things to different persons.

There are more than two CAD BIM systems out there that Architects favour and use. Nemetcheck has digital triplets in this analogy lol.

If we compare Autodesk to Nemetcheck it could be taken as digital twins in the CAD BIM market.

Same with Apple to Microsoft so unless it’s specified, take it as you will.

All marketing spin and used to gain consumers attention.

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

Nathan Hildebrandt — Sat, 29 Oct 2022 09:20:00 GMT

A bit more context for you. This post wasn’t referring to Autodesk or Nemetschek. It was another large international software vendor. 😉

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

Jim Allen — Thu, 03 Nov 2022 14:56:10 GMT

Yep, from all the marketing BS, one could be forgiven for thinking that this is the next best thing since sliced bread.

Except when I started reading about it, I didn't understand it or the real world benefits.

By this, I mean that the articles were all in English, and all the words were in the right order, but much of it was so full of buzzwords and jargon, that I didn't actually understand most of it.

I should say at this point that I've been using CAD for probably 35 years, 3D modelling for maybe 30, rendering for 25, I've been involved in software development for over a decade and I've been using BIM for around 6 years. I've used well over a dozen 3D/CAD/BIM applications, and I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about this stuff!

On the face of it, it allows someone to create a 3D facsimile of a building or environment and simulate performance. Okay, that's straightforward, the next bit is how exactly?

What inputs are required, from what sensors, where are they located, how do they connect to the model, what software is used, what are the conduits, how does it perform at scale, and how exactly does it relate to BIM?

Are all these things 'secret' and based on proprietary technology that only the big multinationals can access?

Does anyone have any actual examples of how this works? People talk about modelling traffic, energy, weather, occupancy etc, but I can't see much in the way of who has done it, how it is done, what it has actually achieved, the benefits and its ROI. Currently it sounds like a load of snake oil salesmen.

I'm getting dejà vu from the early days of BIM and crypto-currency.

Am I living in a parallel universe?

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

Nathan Hildebrandt — Thu, 03 Nov 2022 22:41:33 GMT

@JIM yep it is a sad state of affairs, marketing itself can be the potential downfall of such important technology. There will be some great benefits from it, but will people really believe it after all of the fake hype?

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

mthd — Fri, 04 Nov 2022 01:58:29 GMT

Is this the definition of “Digital Twins” that you are referring to ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_twin

Very interesting, as I had never heard of that concept before. I haven’t been bombarded with that type of marketing here in Australia yet but others may have ?

It does apply to our field of work of simulating a BIM concept and then it actually being physically constructed on site.

it reminds me of when the concepts of 4th and 5th dimensions were being thrown around in regards to BIM ?

Even the term BIM was new and in vogue not long ago and yet it has stuck.

All marketing jargon to get us all interested ?

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

Jim Allen — Fri, 04 Nov 2022 10:02:45 GMT

"There will be some great benefits from it..."

But will there though - really?

To me it looks like another 3D printing hypefest.

Who is really going to invest in this? How wide scale will it be?

Looks exactly like 3d printing to me. Pushed by lots of academics, techies and people with no real industry experience, and all with a vested interest.

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

Nathan Hildebrandt — Fri, 04 Nov 2022 10:08:46 GMT

No I honestly believe it will provide value. The problem is just like BIM people that don't understand it will ask for it anyway. There are some great benefits in digital twins if the use responds to a business need. The next buzzword that will get you excited is Smart Cities. I hopefully will be able to upload a new podcast and presentation shortly and I will share links to where you can see how real this is.

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

Nathan Hildebrandt — Fri, 04 Nov 2022 10:13:09 GMT

It will be very widespread. They are promoting it already across Australia and at the Smart City Level for the Brisbane Olympics in 2032. It is also a very big thing in Saudi Arabia, they are pouring heaps of money into it. This is not a fad, it isn't concrete 3D printing. Trust me this is the next step.

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

mthd — Fri, 04 Nov 2022 10:24:46 GMT

Nathan, thanks I will keep a look out for it. I am in SEQ so I will probably see it in the news.

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

Nathan Hildebrandt — Mon, 07 Nov 2022 03:36:26 GMT

If you are at any BIM events like BrisBIM, BILT, or The Digital Twin Partnership events then you will know all about it!

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

Nathan Hildebrandt — Wed, 16 Nov 2022 10:24:39 GMT

@mthd here is a link to the BrisBIM event in September that I recorded about the progress in the UK and Digital Twins. The podcast will be out in a few weeks' time.

https://www.skewed.com.au/media/webinars/brisbim-special-event-september-2022

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

Jim Allen — Wed, 16 Nov 2022 12:14:46 GMT

That was really interesting - thanks for sharing, I understand more about it now.

There does seem to have been a lot of vague hype published about it.

From the seminar, it seems that Digital Twin simply refers to 'data-driven mathematical modelling and simulation', and isn't necessarily linked to BIM.

It is something that already happens with things like environmental modelling, lighting simulations, flood risk analysis, CFD analysis etc. It's the way we are increasingly working by default for large commercial developments isn't it?

At least that's how it works here in the UK, but I don't think we are in any way unique in this regard.

Calling this stuff 'digital twins' seems to be overselling the principle more than a bit!

A bit of snappy jargon someone came up with that doesn't meaningfully describe what it is about.

It's a bit like the misuse of terms AI and ML - in practice this generally amounts to algorithmically-driven decisions, and in most cases there's no 'intelligent' decision making in the way humans think of it, just a series of formulas which may or may not be that complex.

So yes - data-driven mathematical modelling and simulation is going to be the way we all work in future at least for large projects, and is the next evolution from BIM.

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

Nathan Hildebrandt — Wed, 16 Nov 2022 22:08:32 GMT

Some software vendors are rebadging BIM as digital twins which aligns with the

Digital Twins are more so about the built asset with sensors and data from the asset providing real time or near real time information to enable better decisions to be made in how the asset is managed and maintained. The key to it all is to make sure you see who is speaking about digital twins and the company they come from. Then you can determine whether they are being real about it, or whether they are rebadging, as I like to call it.

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

mthd — Thu, 17 Nov 2022 06:13:47 GMT

I might be a bit slow on the uptake but I see what you mean by DT marketing.

TV adds are presenting more things with gaming Avatars. VR and RL (Real Life) appears to be the basis for the DT ideology.

People who are heavily into gaming have a DT, the gaming identity as represented by their unique Avatar and the person they are in the real world.

Even right here on Archicad talk we are our own digital twin.

My twin wrote this not me lol !

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

Jim Allen — Thu, 17 Nov 2022 09:50:03 GMT

Well - not really, unless I missed a subtlety of Alexandra Bolton's presentation...

Didn't she say that they are also being used in financial markets?

It's not all about sensors and the built environment at all according to her, that is a subset of the field.

Re: Anyone being slammed with Digital Twin marketing?

Nathan Hildebrandt — Thu, 17 Nov 2022 09:54:37 GMT

It is the data and lessons learnt from the building that the insurers and financiers are using because the information about the building is more accurate. So they know exactly what the building is built from and they know the usage and efficiencies or lack of it in all assets.

They can then provide lower interest rates to assets they know are lower risk. And also the same for insurance. Over time the amount of asset data that is collected will then inform their pricing policy and will also drive changes in design to deliver assets that have less financial risk.