topic Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am in Collaboration with other software

Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and "overlay"

rob2218 — Mon, 30 Dec 2024 16:21:00 GMT

I know what the diff is in Autocad but in Archicad....what happens when you "attach" a DWG vs "overlay"?

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

rob2218 — Wed, 21 Jan 2015 00:18:30 GMT

Ok, so this is what we have.
In the dreaded "autocad" we have a site plan. that site plan is called "Site-1.dwg"
this site plan DWG has attatched (not sure if overlayed or attached yet) other DWGs which is called "Plan-1.DWG".

So...whats the best method/practice.

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 21 Jan 2015 15:40:22 GMT

Checking the Help files as a first step would save you a lot of waiting time.
If you press F1 in the Attach XREF Dialog it will take you to this help page:

http://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/guides/archicad-18-int-reference-guide/user-interface-reference/dialog-boxes/xref-management-dialog-box/attach-xref-options/

But to answer your question: the Plan-1.dwg is nested within the Site-1.dwg if I understand correctly. So to be safe you would have to use the Attach method, because with the Overlay method the nested DWG (Plan-1.dwg) will not be displayed in ArchiCAD.

As a sidenote: I myself prefer placing DWG files as a Drawing because that way they will not mess up my attributes with the attributes in the DWG file. Plus, if you select the placed DWG, you will still be able to access the layers within the DWG and change their visibilities in case it is needed.

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

rob2218 — Wed, 21 Jan 2015 15:43:10 GMT

thanks Lasz.
will read help files.
I'll try the "place drawing method" of adding the site plan.
which one (xref attach) or (drawing placement) retains the DWG files lineweights?
do any of these retain their lineweights?
I remember being told by someone on this forum that the "xref attach" is the best bet instead of the "place drawing" method....wonder why that was?

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 19:14:37 GMT

Line weights in AutoCAD are not part of a Pen definition like they are in ArchiCAD, but a separate setting for each element.
So in a DWG file you can have several elements with all kind of colors, while their line weight can be the same.
Or, you can have several elements with the same color, while the line weight of each can be different.
In ArchiCAD elements with the same Pen always have the same line weight.

In the DWG/DXF Translation Setup Dialog you can define Pen-Color Conversion tables, which will convert a DWG element with a certain color to a specified ArchiCAD Pen. But I think that is about the most you can do. The way the two programs handle line weights is so different that there is no good solution.

Maybe we would need a DWG/DXF Import option that would make it possible to map AutoCAD line weights to ArchiCAD Pens, that would probably provide a better solution for this case.

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

rob2218 — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 19:23:01 GMT

doh....bummer.
So...the architect did a bunch of work in Autocad. He has a site plan...very messy filled with lots of engineering dimensions, points, elevations, trees...etc...so we are trying to come up with the best solution where I can either import the DWG file, slap it on an Archicad sheet and be done with it....therefore if changes need to be made in Autocad he (the architect) can continue to make revisions and I'll simply "update" the 'drawing' or 'xref DWG' but the lineweights is what's gonna kill me.

How to get the DWG from autocad to come into Archicad and maintain their pen weights from Autocad....and not have to create a penset for yet "another" 256 pens....hubboy.

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

rob2218 — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 19:36:23 GMT

Also...isn't the whole hangup about inserting a DWG as a "Drawing" vs. inserting it as an XREF DWG ATTACH the whole "layer" issue?

Right now I have the DWG xref'd into ARchicad. Throws all sorts of additional layers in my Archicad layer list I DO NOT want to see.

It's my understanding that I can simply bring in that same DWG as a "Drawing" grabbing it form an external source, place it in my layout and the layer list wont be populated...is that not the case?

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 19:38:55 GMT

If you can make him do the following, that might work:

Tell him to set the color and line weight of all elements to BYLAYER. The effect of this will be that the color and line weight defined for a Layer will be applied to the color and line weight of all elements on that Layer.
This way all elements with a given color will have the same line weight.
Then when you import that into ArchiCAD, you can map AutoCAD colors to ArchiCAD Pens.

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 19:39:54 GMT

rob2218 wrote:
Also...isn't the whole hangup about inserting a DWG as a "Drawing" vs. inserting it as an XREF DWG ATTACH the whole "layer" issue?

Right now I have the DWG xref'd into ARchicad. Throws all sorts of additional layers in my Archicad layer list I DO NOT want to see.

It's my understanding that I can simply bring in that same DWG as a "Drawing" grabbing it form an external source, place it in my layout and the layer list wont be populated...is that not the case?

Yes, if you bring the DWG as a Drawing, it will not bring its attributes into ArchiCAD's attribute set - a cleaner solution.

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

rob2218 — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 19:41:16 GMT

wondering then if....the DWG from Autocad is brought in as a "Drawing" into Archicad...if it will retain then it's autocad lineweights?
hummm..

laszlonagy wrote:
rob2218 wrote:
Also...isn't the whole hangup about inserting a DWG as a "Drawing" vs. inserting it as an XREF DWG ATTACH the whole "layer" issue?

Right now I have the DWG xref'd into ARchicad. Throws all sorts of additional layers in my Archicad layer list I DO NOT want to see.

It's my understanding that I can simply bring in that same DWG as a "Drawing" grabbing it form an external source, place it in my layout and the layer list wont be populated...is that not the case?
Yes, if you bring the DWG as a Drawing, it will not bring its attributes into ArchiCAD's attribute set - a cleaner solution.

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 19:44:00 GMT

No, the translation process from DWG to PLN is the same whether you attach it as an XREF or place it as a Drawing. They both use the Translator specified in the DWG/DXF Translation Setup Dialog.

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 02:47:36 GMT

Rob:

If you are only using the DWG file to show in background, have you tried to create a PDF and drop that into Archicad? It could work and with PDF you get all proper lineweights.

Un saludo desde Florida,

Diego

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

rob2218 — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 03:13:45 GMT

hey hey hey!....Diego my friend!
how goes? voice blast from my past.
Hope you are doing better sir.

thanks for the advice. Yes...I'll try the PDF brought into Archicad as a technique..that might be the best bet for linework.

So, the architect will need to continually update the PDF if anything changes...same holds true for the other methods I suppose.

thanks again.

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

Thomas Holm — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 14:52:50 GMT

rob2218 wrote:
wondering then if....the DWG from Autocad is brought in as a "Drawing" into Archicad...if it will retain then it's autocad lineweights?
hummm..

Sorry being late to the table, but...
We've had this issue for years. Since we frequently co-operate with engineers using Autocad, we need reliable round-trip conversions. Long ago, we settled on using the Keep Pen Index Number translator as our default. (In fact, I think it should be Graphisoft's default too, but that may be beside the point.)

Using that, you have complete control over how Autocad's pens are imported.
If you also add a customized Pen table, you also have control over how the imported pens display in Archicad.

We built a Pen table where the first 10 pens mimic the default Autocad one (Pen #1= red 0,25mm etc) and use that as our standard. Since 90% of Autocad-using engineers never change that default, we almost always have full round-trip compatibility without much tinkering.

The only problem we have with this method is that each time we get a new Archicad version or Library, we have to change the default pens for the windows, doors etc that we use. Since Graphisoft doesn't supply us with a good tool for doing this globally, this can be a pain, but to my mind it's worth it. Favorites is a good way to handle it.

If you search my posts in this forum for "dwg", you'll find more on this subject.

Best regards,
Thomas

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

rob2218 — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 18:51:05 GMT

"ALWAYS" better late than never....
thank you for your suggestion Thomas.
I'll look into it.
I don't, and never will, understand why there isn't ANY "out-of-the-box" 'good' graphical pen table that one can simply just "use" and get good looking line quality.
Let alone a DWG conversion...i'm also referring to a good, PenTable that works when you insert an object...ANY object for that matter, that knows what is suppose to be "thin", "medium" "thick" xtra-thick and so on......

Sometimes you bring in a object, it has certain "lines" with certain pens, then when you print, you'll see that the lines you were expecting to be "thin" are SUPER bold and then your boss looks at you like, "what are you a moron, don't you know how to deliniate graphic lineweight correctly?".......sheesh, and there's no explaining or justifying that "hey the PenTable is whacked" or the it has the wrong PenSet...or....whatev's....it's a losing battle folks.

Thomas wrote:
rob2218 wrote:
wondering then if....the DWG from Autocad is brought in as a "Drawing" into Archicad...if it will retain then it's autocad lineweights?
hummm..

Re: Xref in Archicad-diff between "attach" and &am

Thomas Holm — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 19:30:00 GMT

Yes that's a good question 😉

But we live with what we've got. History. I first learned to control this issue during my years with Microstation. There, you got whacked hard if you lost control. And since I'm the boss, I have to whack myself these days... I know it's weird that I'm recommending a pen setup that originates in the early 1980's Autocad, some thirty years later. But it makes my life easier.

rob2218 wrote:
I don't, and never will, understand why there isn't ANY "out-of-the-box" 'good' graphical pen table that one can simply just "use" and get good looking line quality.
Let alone a DWG conversion...i'm also referring to a good, PenTable that works when you insert an object...ANY object for that matter, that knows what is suppose to be "thin", "medium" "thick" xtra-thick and so on......