topic Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon? in Collaboration with other software

sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

aahatimo — Mon, 16 May 2005 18:36:08 GMT

fresh from sketchup's newsletter it looks like they will be demonstrating both su 5 & a sketchup importer for ac9 at the aia convention in vegas.

from may newsletter:
'....We're previewing SU5 at the House of Blues Music Hall on Thursday (May 19) evening.

Thanks to our great development teams, there is a new ArchiCAD 9 plug in. Our own Kevin Durham will be demonstrating in the Graphisoft booth (#4020) at scheduled times each day.

We're also really excited about co-hosting a bash with Apple on Friday night in the Islander Room (G-H), on the lower level of the Mandalay Bay Convention Center. The Apple Architecture by Design gathering will give you Mac users (and future Mac users) the chance to see the how well SketchUp and a few other tools work for architectural design on the Apple platform. Register at:
www.seminars.apple.com/go/architecture05 '

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

stefan — Tue, 17 May 2005 08:12:48 GMT

Yes, read it today in the SketchUp mailing.

Good news. The old convertor had it's problems but was a good effort. Too bad it was not more supported by the SketchUp people...

Now I still have mixed feelings about the necessity of such an add-on: SketchUp is per definition a geometric modeller and not a building modeller. Any effort to translate the model automatically into something using building semantics is prone to interpretation errors. You have to model in a very specific way in SketchUp to be able to turn the "mesh" into something using walls, floors and roofs.

But it might help some people so it probably has it's use.

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 May 2005 11:11:40 GMT

I think Graphisoft should buy Sketchup and use its interface with ArchiCad. I mean it would be cool to be able to show/cut/annotate floor plans and sections in 3d space and also to create the stories right there. Then we would still have all of the power of the 2d views and database as well. The simplicity of Sketchup in 3d with the power of ArchiCad and its database. That would be a powerful combo.

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

stefan — Tue, 17 May 2005 12:39:49 GMT

outpostarc wrote:
I think Graphisoft should buy Sketchup and use its interface with ArchiCad. I mean it would be cool to be able to show/cut/annotate floor plans and sections in 3d space and also to create the stories right there. Then we would still have all of the power of the 2d views and database as well. The simplicity of Sketchup in 3d with the power of ArchiCad and its database. That would be a powerful combo.

The Idea is not that bad for 3D-modelling.
The realism of the idea is something else... SketchUp is "only" a geometric modeller (point, edges and faces). The ArchiCAD 'prisms' and 'boxes' etc... don't exist in SketchUp. SketchUp only has points, connected by lines and (if they are coplanar) faces that are filled in.
It's very core data model is completely different from the GDL-based ArchiCAD. So it seems highly impossible.

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

Anonymous — Tue, 17 May 2005 16:09:04 GMT

I guess what I mean is that Graphisoft would have to buy the rights to use the interface ideas.

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

Thomas Holm — Fri, 20 May 2005 22:46:07 GMT

I just got this info from @Last Software, Inc. (the SketchUp People)

"Graphisoft has been developing, with some help from @Last, an ArchiCAD plugin. Graphisoft will be launching, distributing and supporting the plugin. The plugin has been announced but it hasn't been released (kind of like SketchUp 5)."

This plugin has according to announcements been demonstrated at the National AIA Show in LasVegas. Hopefully, it will be released soon on both platforms.

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 21 May 2005 17:14:58 GMT

aahatimo wrote:
from may newsletter:
'....We're previewing SU5 at the House of Blues Music Hall on Thursday (May 19) evening.

This event was (for me) the biggest blast of the expo... drinks, food, live band, and SketchUp 5 announced and demo'd on a big screen above the band and on all of the tv's around the whole bar/venue. Mark Sawyer and the SU crew (about 15 of them) took the stage at one point in the announcement. Quite the show! (Their booth was continuously very busy, too.)

Photo attached.

Karl

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

Karl Ottenstein — Sat, 21 May 2005 17:18:50 GMT

Here's a photo of the @Last/SketchUp booth from the AIA Expo in Las Vegas.

Really impressive and effective booth design. The screened panels above the booth were live projections of demos happening at each corner of the booth, and could be seen from quite a distance in the cavernous hall, drawing continuous crowds.

Mark Sawyer, CEO (and previously with GS), worked the crowds continuously along with a large staff. Sales seemed brisk.

Karl

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

aahatimo — Sat, 21 May 2005 17:23:02 GMT

karl,
thanks for the update, looks like a blast! did you see a demo of the su5 import into archicad?
how was the apple & graphisoft shows / booths there?

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Aug 2005 03:10:38 GMT

Karl, folks, any new word on this? I've checked the SU website and found nothing, and my dealer/reseller keeps sending me emails about this, but his site is blocked here in China (lord only knows why). What would this plugin offer that we can't already do?
I wonder how useful importing SU models into AC could be? I have found SU works only for really conceptual stuff, I wouldn't start out making a building model in it and then trying to import that into AC. If one needs only import a SU concept model to use as a guideline for further AC modeling, that can already be done with 3ds, as Karl has mentioned elsewhere.

I have found that SU is more useful downstream from AC. I export AC models into SU all the time. That way they are accurate and contain lots of easily modelled AC elements that are actually very difficult to accurately model in SU. In SU I can clean up the extras lines and junk that make AC elevations and sketch renderings so troublesome, and I can add any modeling flourishes that are difficult to make in AC (chimney caps, e.g.)

I suggest that anyone frustrated with how AC models look in 3D/elevation try exporting them to SU for easy manipulation and cleanup. This really leverages SU and AC and the SU results can be reimported as lines or beautiful images back into AC.

PS: the real bummer about this plugin, if it exists, is that it signals that GS is not planning to add a version of SU's wonderfully easy 3d model manipulation tools into AC any time soon. Maxon Freeform is more confirmation of this. It looks as if we will never get real freeform 3d into AC, nor easy 3d manipulation of existing AC elements (other than SEO)but will always have to depend on plugins. The problem with plugins and imported models, as is mentioned may times before my post, is that they lack a convincing 2d representation. How do those swoopy Maxon FreeForm elements look on my plans? Also, when 3d models are imported, they cannot be assigned status as slabs, roofs, walls, etc..., which limits the BIM capabilities of AC.

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 24 Aug 2005 03:58:53 GMT

Hi Brad,

Beijing now, eh?!

I have not heard anything that can be said in public. I'm sure when GS has the plug-in ready, it will be announced on www.graphisoft.com as well as here. 😉

I just tried your approach - AC model into SU - last week with a friend and found it really effective. We had some complex stepped footings that were modeled in AC, but without the sloping parts of the steps - which made the footing model look pretty bad. Rather than the hassle of roofs/etc in AC, it was so easy to create the footing steps in SU. The result can come back into AC as 3DS.

SU seems to get a little sluggish with too big of a model (too many polygons) though. And, as beautiful as the dynamic shadows are, turning them on kills the fluidity of interaction. I'm sure they're working on that.

Another way cool thing about SU that you've probably used is the 3D annotation that dynamically rotates to face the camera as the viewpoint changes. So, we can take marqueed pieces of an AC model into SU and produce pretty nice looking annotated isometric details from more than one viewpoint. As you say, the result can be brought back into AC. Unfortunately, the entire process is not with live model data. I continue to wait for an AC version that supports live 3D views that can be annotated and linked to PM...

I agree with your comments in your PS. (The Maxon add-on has been renamed MaxonForm though.)

Karl

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

stefan — Wed, 24 Aug 2005 08:04:21 GMT

I use SketchUp all the time, but am not really exchanging the model with ArchiCAD that much. It has it's uses, but I see it more in the line of Maxonform: making a nice SketchUp model and importing it as a library element in my ArchiCAD scene.

But I usually go the other way around: exporting from ArchiCAD. I don't need all that 3D detail slowing down my sections... I prefer clean 2D elements for that.

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:31:51 GMT

Here's a slightly off-topic question, but it pertains to the MaxonForm and SU threads: when reimporting 3DS into Archicad, how do you avoid the triangulation lines along faces/facets? I know that if you render, these disappear, but in plan/3d/section elevation, they seem to be a permanent, and ugly, feature of any model brought back into Archicad, be it from SU, C4D, Maya, Cheetah, etc...

Karl: yes, Beijing. The quality of life and quality of the air was just too high where I used to live, so I thought I'd move to China to make everything a little nastier 😉

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

stefan — Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:20:26 GMT

Brad wrote:
Here's a slightly off-topic question, but it pertains to the MaxonForm and SU threads: when reimporting 3DS into Archicad, how do you avoid the triangulation lines along faces/facets? I know that if you render, these disappear, but in plan/3d/section elevation, they seem to be a permanent, and ugly, feature of any model brought back into Archicad, be it from SU, C4D, Maya, Cheetah, etc...

I guess you can't.

In older days, I imported OBJ files into ArchiCAD and that respected the smoothing of a form. Smoothed edges were not shown in S/E. It was a NURBS model made in VIZ. I guess this depended highly on the implementation of the import-plugin and (in case you don't know) the OBJ-importer was scrapped from ArchiCAD a few versions back...

E.g. http://www2.asro.kuleuven.ac.be/asro/English/HOME/SBs/tutorial/tips/viz2ac.htm

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

Bricklyne Clarence — Wed, 24 Aug 2005 19:18:01 GMT

Brad wrote:
Here's a slightly off-topic question, but it pertains to the MaxonForm and SU threads: when reimporting 3DS into Archicad, how do you avoid the triangulation lines along faces/facets? I know that if you render, these disappear, but in plan/3d/section elevation, they seem to be a permanent, and ugly, feature of any model brought back into Archicad, be it from SU, C4D, Maya, Cheetah, etc...

.......

.

I haven't had this problem. Are you sure that you check the "force smooth" option in the 3ds import dialog box, when you are importing? In my experience, in plan the imported element is displayed as a basic outline(s) of the projected contours of the object from above without triangulation or meshes appearing. Ditto for section and elevation views.

I have to admit though, that in some cases where I imported objects with peculiar curves (creases, folds etc) such as 3DS Max furniture, the 3ds importer seems to approximate those special curves and the object shows up as having jagged lines instead.

My guess would be that is might have something to do with the originating program that produces the 3ds file, and whether it has smoothing there as well. Actually, now that I come to think of it, I remember when I would import objects from Sketchup in particular, I would get triangulation meshes displayed; and sketchup 3ds export ( for v4 anyway) has no smoothing option. My suggestion would be to try to pass the object through a different program which has smoothing option (Max, Rhino and FormZ come to mind) and resave it as a 3ds files again, that might work.

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

stefan — Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:46:47 GMT

You might try again with SketchUp 5, since it has 3ds import & export now.

Re: sketchup importer for ac9 coming soon?

Djordje — Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:53:57 GMT

Karl wrote:
Another way cool thing about SU that you've probably used is the 3D annotation that dynamically rotates to face the camera as the viewpoint changes. So, we can take marqueed pieces of an AC model into SU and produce pretty nice looking annotated isometric details from more than one viewpoint. As you say, the result can be brought back into AC. Unfortunately, the entire process is not with live model data. I continue to wait for an AC version that supports live 3D views that can be annotated and linked to PM...

This is an excellent wishlist item, Karl. Will you do the honours?

Karl wrote:
I agree with your comments in your PS. (The Maxon add-on has been renamed MaxonForm though.)

Me two ... the emphasis is still on MODELING, not DOCUMENTATION that IMHO the strength of ArchiCAD lies in. How VB is all that?

No, I do not want to use BIM! Startups always peed me off ...