topic Re: Data calculation too difficult ! in Collaboration with other software

Data calculation too difficult !

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Dec 2005 04:28:01 GMT

Hello
We think the bad thing in AC in all releases is the" face" "Quantity, Cost estimate, technical specifications" !
The Data Project Calculation is abstract complicated fuzzy and particularly indigestible !
Here frankly, we have many problems ! Often we wonder why we tire ourselves to build beautiful 3d models , because we think this part of our favorite software, would need serious lifting !
GS should be wary because one day, it could maliciously loose its peace on the market by neglecting this complete side of our work!
First, in documentation, GS develop various ancient concepts ; lists of elements, components, zones, ID management , adjustments recorded in a default folder named "IS_settings", Auto ID increase, nomenclature of openings with fields thicknesses, "pl-fill", "pl_txt_null", "pl _ num_null(df), pl_txt . That's an old world ! In short we find nothing very demonstrative for helping us in our architects practices (also for our professional quantity surveyor ) !
Generally we need a simple cubage, an area, a perimeter or linear of 3D entities to which one needs to affect a simple multiplying coefficient to have the summary cost in different batchs, and that in an ergonomic way. That's all we need ! A simple filter through the materiel would be also enough in many case !
Here it's too difficult to manipulate !
Id user of the wall 012 or 013 in breeze blocks in the layer " walls external" of story X, are sympathetic but if we just want quickly a beautiful list table with the quantity of materiel (the unit in m2, m3 or m has), a code possibly, a designation and a field to put a price and have a total cost by batch to diffuse for constructional works contracts, that's not really easy! Of course we know that we can do it, but we spend too many time and much energy for generate a simple multiplication and a total sum by batch?
As for the possibilities of page-setting, they are ridiculous and noncompetitive for our agencies.

For us, we are far but very very far from what we hope to find for one of the most expensive software for the CAD building in Europe !....
Moreover we notice that no simple and concrete case of Quantity and cost report as a "commonplace house" for example is studied in the handbooks!
We are many users to say that in Europe, and always claim the same things.
For the drawings part, we are very satisfied, and we think it is one of best one CAD system !
Best regards
MAsse

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 27 Dec 2005 23:15:05 GMT

Masse wrote:
Moreover we notice that no simple and concrete case of Quantity and cost report as a "commonplace house" for example is studied in the handbooks!

I agree with all of your observations ... and particularly the one above. It is remarkable that after all of these years with the Calculate functions, that the user guides do not have a proper example.

Karl

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Anonymous — Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:46:52 GMT

Karl,
Thank you for your response.
We see that in the world we are not alone to have the same problems.
We are members of a dynamic French forum which gathers many professional users.
The importer of Archicad in France does not listen us.
They are all unanimous and denounce the weakness of the product in " the project Data Calculation" part for bills, quantities, and estimated cost.
The whole of its members shares the opinion of Masse.
But why GS does not answer on this delicate subject which annoys ?
Best Regards
Dim

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Erika Epstein — Wed, 28 Dec 2005 19:29:56 GMT

Karl wrote:
I agree with all of your observations ... and particularly the one above. It is remarkable that after all of these years with the Calculate functions, that the user guides do not have a proper example.

Karl

I concur with both of you. And Karl, will your upcoming book include examples?

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Dec 2005 12:32:10 GMT

Hello,
Entirely of agreement with you. For the bills of quantities,and and estimated cost, I say to my customers , that goes more quickly "manually" than by computer. I thus stopped this service, which is a pity, because I do not push my work until the end.
Best Regards Nachenza

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:37:32 GMT

It is good to see so many new members from France. Could one of you post a link to the French forum which has been discussing this issue?

Erika wrote:
And Karl, will your upcoming book include examples?

The intent is to have lots of examples. If it ever sees the light of day. Life has been a bit hectic, and so progress has been slow.... Thanks for the plug, Erika. 😉

Karl

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:57:36 GMT

Hello Karl

The link is here Carnét de doléances in the FC-Cadlink forum.

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Anonymous — Sat, 31 Dec 2005 02:15:39 GMT

Hello Karl,

Indeed this small community is very effective and if you speak a little bit French I invite you to often consult it. You will be received well and this forum is very rich and interesting!
We start has to intend to speak about a version 10 but we fear that "Graphisoft" does not do anything to simplify the bill of quantities.We do not know exactly their strategy and they do not communicate much on the subject.
We do not believe any more that that is a priority for them and we fear that it prefers to rather develop and integrate new "gadgets" than to honour their users. That is a pity because we think in the agency that, some where, we are also their forces.
Well, we prefer a constructive attitude which criticizes, also we attach for you two very simple examples. If that can help you. We think in more than this type of document is universal, because we hate to hear that there is several "archicad" in different countries because there are various "kind" of exerting our job. All the architects in the world publish one day for their customers this kind of estimated. You understood that we would like to be able to do that with a minimum of °click°, unfortunately we remake almost all on Excel. If one day a book is published on the subject it will be quite useful, but handling will be they simpler? we are not sour ! We wish you a happy new years

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Anonymous — Sat, 31 Dec 2005 02:17:15 GMT

second example

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:55:34 GMT

Hello Karl, and all

Some times ago I wrote that the menu calculation was too difficult.
Many users were incapable to use it correctly because there was nothing in the official documentation. No concrete case was processed.

So I just want to inform you and the community of Archicad users , that you finally go to find your happiness.
Eric Wilk wrote a new book.
To my knowledge there is nowhere else a book which explains seriously and professionally this subject.
I had the luck to read it quickly before its pre-printing and it' s really fantastic !
With many examples, he explains clearly how to calculate quantities and how to simulate costs from Archicad graphics databases for ours buildings.
The English version is not printed yet but pre-orders are opened, because if I understood well, he auto-edits it himself with his own money.
The official distribution of the book is foreseen by November 20th 2006.
I think that the first orders will be the served first ones!
I remind that the author has already known a deep success with his first book which is moreover referenced on the Graphisoft site *.
You can consult the table of contents which will return service to numerous Archicads users of our beloved software.
For those who are interested in the subject, I allow me to communicate you the address of its site :

here
or here

Best regards

*: ref

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:36:23 GMT

Masse wrote:
...Some times ago I wrote that the menu calculation was too difficult.
Many users were incapable to use it correctly because there was nothing in the official documentation. No concrete case was processed...

...Eric Wilk wrote a new book...

The English version is not printed yet but pre-orders are opened...

Masse,
This is really good news Can you or Erik please place a notice in the AD section of ArchiCAD-Talk when the English version is available?

It would also be really nice if we could get an "inside look" at some of the content.

Thanks,
Dan K

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Oct 2006 09:20:08 GMT

Hello Dan
Here are the only information which I have

Best regards

Table of contents

* 1-Introduction
* 2-The various stages in the production of a summary description, of a quantity estimate and of an estimate in ArchiCAD
* 3-Creation of the database
* 4-Creation of the properties
* 5-Individual assignment of the properties
* 6-Automatic assignment of the properties
* 7-Creation of a property in a program library object
* 8-Creation of components in a program library object with a GDL script
* 9-Link of a database component in a program library object with a GDL script
* 10-The summary description
* 11-Summary
* 12-The lists
* 13-Which list to use, or which list to create?
* 14-How to produce a proper quantity survey?
* 15-Analysis of the database “components”
* 16-Creation of the object comprising the manual settings
* 17-Creation of the property “wall”
* 18-Creation of the object “wall end"
* 19-Creation of the property “column”
* 20-Creation of the property “beam”
* 21-Creation of the property “slab”
* 22-Creation of the properties Roofmaker
* 23-Creation of the property “roof”
* 24-Creation of the property "fill"
* 25-Creation of the library elements “window”
* 26-Creation of the library elements “door”
* 27-Creation of the library elements skylight”
* 28-Creation of the library elements “objects”
* 29-Creation of the library elements “stair”
* 30 - Creation of a zone
* 31 - Use and modification of the bill of quantities

* Appendix 1 – Syntax of the List Templates
* Appendix 2 – Syntax of the main GDL functions used in this book
* Appendix 3 – The list global variables

Product Details

* Paperback: 352 pages
* Publisher: FC-CadLink (Nov 2006)
* Language: English
* ISBN 10: 2-9527670-1-7
* ISBN 13: 978-2-9527670-1-9
* Dimensions (in cm): 16 X 2 X 24

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Anonymous — Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:35:20 GMT

This is the best news I've heard in weeks! (aside from my upcoming vacation )

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

MarinRacic — Sun, 07 Jan 2007 11:40:11 GMT

Any news on the book? Still no info on the web site and November has passed quite some time ago...

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Srinivas — Mon, 08 Jan 2007 07:14:01 GMT

MarinRacic wrote:
Any news on the book? Still no info on the web site and November has passed quite some time ago...

I Think this book was released see the below links

http://tr.graphisoftus.com/faq_entry_details.asp?id=1368

http://www.fc-cadlink.fr/boutique/achat/produit_details.php?id=7&PHPSESSID=dd43ff46f77ce7dbc28f8d1b2b048f46

But I would like to now more info from any one who already purchased this book.

Can someone post a little review on this book? please

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Anonymous — Mon, 08 Jan 2007 08:34:14 GMT

Hello

The french version of the book is release since the 6th december.

The english version is not already release, i will give you the release date when I will precisely know it.

This book give you the key to do your own quantity estimate and description with ArchiCAD and Excel, by using components property and how really personnalize it.

Sory for my bad english.

Re: Data calculation too difficult !

Anonymous — Mon, 08 Jan 2007 11:48:38 GMT

The release date for the English version will be the 20th January.

PS : And is available now since few days Here.