topic Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed ! in Installation & update

Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Anonymous — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:33:46 GMT

I downloaded ArchiCAD Interactive Training Guide (all four archives plus the introduction movie) - but I can not install them.

The introduction WMV file plays ok but when I run he installer for any of the four tutorials, it decompresses the archive to a temp folder and then I get the following message:

java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: run Exception in thread "main"

and the installation process closes.

I downloaded the International English installers for Windows. I'm using Windows XP SP2. I have got the Sun Java installed on the system and it otherwise works ok.

I would be grateful for any help on how to install the tutorials.

BTW why such a complicated procedure, involving installers and Java etc.? It is not a software package, just a bunch of PDF and WMV files, after all -why not simply zip all the files and let the user unzip them after downloading, to a destination of choice?

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Anonymous — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:41:19 GMT

Vista, go figure. 😉

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Anonymous — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:32:19 GMT

Jeff wrote:
Vista, go figure. 😉

Thank you for the (useless...) comment... (isn't this supposed to be a professional, moderated forum?)

No, it is not Vista, it is only the "Vista Skin" for XP Pro that makes it look like Vista.
As I stated above, the system is XP Pro SP2 and I have the administrator rights.

I forgot to mention that I also tried installing on a complete different hardware configuration, one with "pure" XP Pro (no SP 2 and no extra "skins" etc.) and I got the same error message.

Please help, thank you!

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Laszlo Nagy — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:56:40 GMT

Just a guess:
Maybe you have a Java problem.
Try to uninstall it and install the latest version from the web.

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:02:56 GMT

Laslonagy, thank you for the tip. Unfortunately it seems it is not the java version that is causing the problem, I did the Java Version Check and it said i had the latest version installed.

Any other ideas?

BTW is it possible to get the tutorials in a simple, zipped form? or any other set of basic ArhiCAD 11 tutorials that cover all main aspects of the program ?

I need urgently (before the christmass holidays) a series of ArchiCAD 11 basic tutorials. I bought a CD but (besides that I hate narrated tutorials in general) it is almost useless as the author is an Australian and his accent is so strong that he is very difficult to understand, almost impossible! I mean, the narrating guy doesn't even try to speak correct English - no offence meant!

I'm afraid this all is casting a very bad shadow on the software firm. Unnecessarily complicated tutorial packagings, not much help on the dedicated forum (with exception and respect to mr. laszlonagy who was the only one in two days that at least tried to help!), commercial ($$$!) tutorials in narrated form that are almost un-understandable... I mean I wonder what can we expect if our company decides to switch to ArchiCAD (as it is the initial intention) and some serious problems with the software occur? Perhaps it will be more prudent if we stay with the Autodesk?

Thank you all and sorry for bothering...

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Ralph Wessel — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:18:02 GMT

Rashanyn wrote:
Laslonagy, thank you for the tip. Unfortunately it seems it is not the java version that is causing the problem, I did the Java Version Check and it said i had the latest version installed.

Did you also un-install Java first as Laszlo suggested? It's possible your installation is up to date, but somehow corrupted or missing a vital component. If you un-install Java, you can force a completely fresh install.

I don't know what else to suggest - there isn't much to go on unfortunately. I think that explains the lack of responses too. I suspect your case is rare, or otherwise a number of others would respond with "me too."

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Anonymous — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:48:38 GMT

Ralph Wessel, thank you. You're right, I haven't un-installed Java completely yet. I just did the version check. I'll do it and will let you know here what happened, just in rare case that someone else run into a similar problem. As you said, it must be a rare problem, otherwise the response would be more impressive.

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Link — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:54:27 GMT

Rashanyn wrote:
BTW is it possible to get the tutorials in a simple, zipped form? or any other set of basic ArhiCAD 11 tutorials that cover all main aspects of the program ?

... I bought a CD but (besides that I hate narrated tutorials in general) it is almost useless as the author is an Australian and his accent is so strong that he is very difficult to understand, almost impossible! I mean, the narrating guy doesn't even try to speak correct English - no offence meant!

If spoken instruction with screenshots doesn't do it for you, I wonder what it is you're after? What would it be to make you happy and would would suit your learning style?

Would you prefer to just read and work through exercises? Would you like to get by with just the Reference manual? Do you want existing projects to work on?

What exactly is it that you want? What training solutions does AutoDesk have that are superior?

Interested...

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Anonymous — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 23:04:35 GMT

Link wrote:
If spoken instruction with screenshots doesn't do it for you, I wonder what it is you're after? What would it be to make you happy and would would suit your learning style?

Would you prefer to just read and work through exercises? Would you like to get by with just the Reference manual? Do you want existing projects to work on?

What exactly is it that you want? What training solutions does AutoDesk have that are superior?

Interested...

Cheers,
Link.

Link, thank you for your interest.

No need to get excited, though (seems you are, I appologize if I'm wrong). I also appologize if you misunderstood my previous comments. It was not my intention to attack anyone, especially not the Graphisoft or Nemetschek. Actually I've been the only one in our firm in the last three or so years trying to convince our bosses that working with the virtual building model is the next step in architecture/civil engineering drafting (either in ArchiCAD, Allplan or AcadBAu) and that AutoCAD is a sort of a CAD dinosaur.

I never said that Autodesk tutorials were superior. The fact is, though, that I never had to 'install' their tutorials - unnecessary installation procedures are a sort of 'asking for trouble', one installs software but not tutorials, come on...

As for my personal preferences regarding tutorials: yes, I dislike the narrated videotutorials, I'd always prefer a written tutorial. A written tutorial is much easier to follow, to browse, to go back to a certain sentence or other important info, to copypaste parts to private notes for further reference; there's no loads of unnecessary visual info in between, you only get the important, crucial screenshots... I could go on and on.

But, unfortunately (as those of us who write tutorials know very well), a written tutorial is much more difficult to create, it takes more time and every word counts, so the author must be very careful, crucial screenshots have to be selected, prepared... etc. That's imho where the recent trend of narrated tutorials comes from: lazy authors looking for the easiest way to get the money, since it is much easier to dictate in a microphone than to use the keyboard and prepare a proper tutorial. Plus you don't have to worry that someone might steal your tutorials etc.

But again - I said I disliked narrated tutorials, I didn't say I didn't want them. To answer to your question:

1. I want a tutorial (narrated or written) that I can use i.e. run on a normal computer running a normal operating system, without having to install it first. W-T-F??? - tutorials are videos or html or pdf files plus example files - all you need is to pack them in a zip or sit file, no need for java stuff, installers and god knows what. Autodesk (and other software firms) seems to know how to make them and Graphisoft (obviously and unfortunately) seems not i.e. tends to overcomplicate simple stuff. A Mac legacy, I guess...

2. I want a tutorial that I can understand. I'm not a native English speaker (like the majority of architect and other CAD users all around the world are not - and contrary to what some people in USA, UK or Australia might think...). Nevertheless I can assure you I've been using English as a second language long enough to have no problems understanding anyone, a native (US, Canada, England, Scotland, Ireland, even Australia and NZ...) or "second language"speaker, if he/she at least try to speak a normal, educated English and not some sort of a local, countryside "mishmash".

The Australian guy in the tutorial I mentioned is doing exactly that: using a sort of a local everyday slang that perhaps people from Sydney or Melbourne could understand, and perhaps even some other native English speakers from other corners of the world (I doubt!) . I'm 100% sure everybody else buying the tutorial had problems understanding him. I intentionally don't want to mention the name of the product (tutorial) or the narrator here in public.

Am I asking too much?

I hope I satisfied your curiosity and answered your question. If there is anything else regarding my personal opinions or views that you don't understand or find strange, feel free to ask as well, I'll gladly try to explain, that's what forums like this one are for.

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Link — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:31:20 GMT

Rashanyn wrote:
No need to get excited, though (seems you are, I appologize if I'm wrong).

Not really excited, more incredulous. I did appreciate your comments though and agree with you to an extent. Although, unless we go to neautral accent classes, it would be hard to achieve what you want. Everyone has an accent right?

Rashanyn wrote:
If there is anything else regarding my personal opinions or views that you don't understand or find strange, feel free to ask as well, I'll gladly try to explain, that's what forums like this one are for.

I may just do that.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Anonymous — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:56:43 GMT

In case anybody's interested:

1. I uninstalled Java,

2. ...went to the Sun site and installed it again.

3. ...did the Java version check again with positive result.

4. ...tried to install each of the four downloaded exe tutorial files. Each one unpacked fine (meaning the download was ok, I guess...) and then (surprise, surprise...) I got the same error message again. Needless to say, the installation failed.

I repeated the procedure from 1. to 4. on two additional, completely different computer configurations, all using Windows XP Pro, one of them with the SP2 and one without - with the same result!

With all due respect and gratitude to all of you who tried to help or just left a comment so far, are you certain that I'm the only one with the problem? After having the same problem on three different hardware configurations I'm getting this crazy idea that perhaps nobody complains because nobody actually downloads the tutorials...

Can anybody using a PC and WXP Pro actually confirm to be able to install and run the tutorials? Please report in this thread with a line or two describing your configurations - if nothing else, I'm getting curious...

thank you.

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Richard Morrison — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:37:02 GMT

This is just a suggestion, since I have no idea what is actually causing this problem. But do you have the demo version of Archicad already installed? Since the tutorials are tied to the program, I'm wondering if there is something in the main program that the tutorials are looking for? Maybe installing Archicad first will help, if it's not already installed.

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Anonymous — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 19:08:27 GMT

Richard Morrison, thank you for taking the time to help. Unfortunately, the fact that Archicad demo is installed on one of the three computers that I've been trying to install the tutorials on, does not seem to influence in any way the (un)success of the tutorials installation. I'm still unable to install them.

I also hope that the tutorials are not reserved only to people who already own the program as it wouldn't make much sense... I mean, why the tutorial installation would have to look for the program installation?

I know it is the Big Party Time these days, especially here in Europe (and, no, I'm not an exception... ) - and that I have far greater chances of eventually getting the solution here after the January the 2nd, 2008.

Unfortunately I need the tutorials now, because only during the holidays I can afford some more free time to learn the program (to be ready for some serious and convincing argumentation / presentations to our bosses next month - they don't trust dealers, software representatives etc. as they see them as merchants, preparing to lay in order to sell the software and earn some cash...)

I haven't found any other suitable basic R11 tutorials in English yet, either... I guess I'll have to go on "swimming" on my own, using the manuals (an acceptable but unfortunatelly not very efficient way of learning the program).

BTW, do you, experienced users think, that it makes any sense to learn using the R9 tutorials? I have the tutorial cd from the R9 package (why is it missing in the R11 package ???), but I'm not sure if it makes sense to learn from it, as the program has changed and improved considerably since then, even the basic things like the menu structure, is different, if I'm not wrong.

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Djordje — Sun, 30 Dec 2007 06:38:28 GMT

Rashanyn wrote:
Unfortunately I need the tutorials now, because only during the holidays I can afford some more free time to learn the program (to be ready for some serious and convincing argumentation / presentations to our bosses next month - they don't trust dealers, software representatives etc. as they see them as merchants, preparing to lay in order to sell the software and earn some cash...)

.. the activity that us architects never do, and do our work for charity, not ever charging a dime, and never getting paid, huh? See how the shoe fits on the other foot? 😉

The problem is that your bosses don't know keyboard from monitor, have no clue about the software in general, and are unable to get the concepts, and can bully you into something that you will do unpaid, while a good software dealer would have a million reasons and good answers to all their "no, we can't do that because ..."

Don't waste your time, they don't want to do it.

Good luck with the tutorials

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

David Maudlin — Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:55:30 GMT

Rashanyn wrote:
BTW, do you, experienced users think, that it makes any sense to learn using the R9 tutorials?

Rashanyn:

Absolutely not. There are huge differences between ArchiCAD 9 and 11 (the inclusion of PlotMaker into ArchiCAD being one of the most important) aside from the default interface differences. If you want to show the bosses what ArchiCAD can do, learn the current version.

David

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Anonymous — Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:47:02 GMT

@Djordje:

I guess you're right and I'm well aware of that. But... I can only profit from additional knowledge, like the basic use of yet another CAD package, so I don't mind learning in my spare time... (knowledge being the only valuable thing that no one can take from me...)

If nothing else, even if I don't manage to convince them to switch to a more modern and efficient approach to the architectural drafting, it at least increases my chances of getting a new job elsewhere... (when we are at it, please let me know if you know of a vacant position for an (unexperienced but willing to learn) ArchiCAD operator in Dubai... )
So, contrary to what it might look like, it is a "no-loose" situation for me. Nothing wrong in spending an hour or two more in front of my comp screen and learning something new, instead of participating in fruitless town-planning debates with drunk colleagues in a pub.

@David Maudlin:

Thank you. I thought so.

Re: Interactive Training Guide can not be installed !

Djordje — Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:56:22 GMT

Rashanyn wrote:
@Djordje:

I guess you're right and I'm well aware of that. But... I can only profit from additional knowledge, like the basic use of yet another CAD package, so I don't mind learning in my spare time... (knowledge being the only valuable thing that no one can take from me...)

This is a very rare approach today ... complimenets!

If nothing else, even

Rashanyn wrote:
(when we are at it, please let me know if you know of a vacant position for an (unexperienced but willing to learn) ArchiCAD operator in Dubai... )

Check with the local CUH2A and Bermello & Ajamil offices, LW Design ... they are all on the Web