topic Re: Is ArchiCad supposed to be this cumbersome on a Mac? in Installation & update

Is ArchiCad supposed to be this cumbersome on a Mac?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 21:50:45 GMT

I've been working with ArchiCad on a PC for a few years now. About four months ago I converted to Mac.

ArchiCad was very easy to work with on PC. Everything was where it was ment to be.
On this Mac on the other hand, I think everything is a big mess. All the independent windows, the palettes and the toolbars don't really snap to anything. I have to customize all the time to make things fit pretty good together. Moving things back and forth, but nothing really fits! Corners doesn't mach up...
This was never a problem on my PC (Yes, I miss my old computer...)

And the doc at the bottom suddenly appears from time to time even though I've told it not to in the system preferences.
When it decides to do so, it pushes the window (drawing) I'm working on up, but not the palettes! So it just looks horrible.

It's easy to loose the top of the window I'm working on. I've accidentally moved it too high and cannot reach the top bar to move it back.

Was buying a Mac a misstake or am I just having problems converting to Mac?

Re: Is ArchiCad supposed to be this cumbersome on a Mac?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 22:07:13 GMT

Your dock keeps appearing because the standard Mac shortcut for it to show is the same as the standard AC "Drag a copy" - CMD+OPT+D. Change this shortcut in your Archicad Work Enviornment.

And yes, it is annoying that palettes don't stay where you put them.

Re: Is ArchiCad supposed to be this cumbersome on a Mac?

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 22:11:30 GMT

Thanks, but I've already figured that out 😉
I changed it to alt+cmd+f instead so now it just keeps saying "biip" every time I copy something. But it still lives it's own life.
Haha, it's horrible...

Was ArchiCad made for PC in the first place and later on converted to Mac? Since it works so badly...?

Rod Jurich

Rod Jurich — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 23:40:27 GMT

Reeves wrote:
/.........
Was ArchiCad made for PC in the first place and later on converted to Mac? /..........

.............. no, the other way around, window$ came later.
Persist, you will not regret leaving the "Dark Side"

Re: Rod Jurich

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 07:26:35 GMT

Rod wrote:
Reeves wrote:
/.........
Was ArchiCad made for PC in the first place and later on converted to Mac? /..........
.............. no, the other way around, window$ came later.
Persist, you will not regret leaving the "Dark Side"

Hm, I would've thought it was the other way around.
Hehe, but are you experiencing the same problems with palettes and such don't matching anything? I just think it's a very cluttered environment.

To be honest, I miss my old computer and windows. So far, after roughly four months, I find OS X cumbersome to work with and this Mac (2,7ghz, 4gig ram) much slower and less cooperative than my previous PC.

But I hope things will get better when we get to know each other 😉

Re: Is ArchiCad supposed to be this cumbersome on a Mac?

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 07:49:32 GMT

When GS brought out a PC version I believe software is employed to assist in creating the two versions. While it facilitates the two versions with less resources it means neither are tailored to a high degree. Some of your issues stem from this compromise.
As MacOS absorbs it's i side it will be very interesting to see how GS can respond. Full screen apps and versions are but a few Mac only system wide initiatives. will Apple make them mandatory?
There is a lot of speculation regarding where Mac goes now. A locked down iOS style experience? No Mac pro hardware? If the experience is good enough it might be ok....but as much as I enjoy my iPhone I have reservations for my computers heading that way…
Interesting days ahead.

Re: Is ArchiCad supposed to be this cumbersome on a Mac?

David Maudlin — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 12:25:50 GMT

Reeves:

Once you get the windows and palettes arranged to your liking (and they do snap to each other), go to Work Environment > Palette Schemes and Store As... to save the arrangement as part of your Work Environment. Then if they get moved, you can easily restore this arrangement via Work Environment > Palette Schemes > Your Scheme: Apply Scheme.

David

Re: Is ArchiCad supposed to be this cumbersome on a Mac?

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 15:40:00 GMT

rwallis:
Hm, that was interesting. But it makes sense!
I haven't tried OS Lion yet, but I think they've already integrated some of the ideas from the iOS interface into it, as you mention.
Skeptical... Not sure if I want my desktop to look like an iPad.

David:
Thanks for the tip. I will try that!

Re: Is ArchiCad supposed to be this cumbersome on a Mac?

Ralph Wessel — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 13:12:05 GMT

Reeves wrote:
ideas from the iOS interface into it, as you mention.
Skeptical... Not sure if I want my desktop to look like an iPad.

Conjecture that Apple will abandon Pro users stems from media outlets that thrive on hype, sensationalism, and controversy. And this is what sells news unfortunately. Apple has been very clear that they see 2 sets of users - pro and consumer - and they intend to serve both. Steve Jobs used to compare them to road users - the majority are cars (smaller, private vehicles), but that doesn't mean we don't need trucks and other utility vehicles. What he saw - and quite rightly in my opinion - is that the vast majority of users don't want or need a general-purpose computer, just as the vast majority don't need a truck or tractor. The iPad, for example, is largely a consumer device. The computer becomes an appliance, and no expertise is required to use it.

Elements of the Mac OS are taking the same approach. The goal is to create an out-of-the-box experience that most consumers can cope with. However, the professional will easily be able to transform it into whatever they require. Apple knows that if they lose professionals, the whole platform will die. Can you imagine what would happen if Apple relied on Microsoft to deliver the platform that produced all media and applications for Apple hardware? Does anyone seriously think that could be Apple's plan?

Personally - and from a professional standpoint - I like the changes that Lion has brought. Most of them are good for everyone. There's a few - like LaunchPad - that I pushed aside and never looked at again. I can imagine that naive users might benefit from it. But gestures, Mission Control, Versioning, Auto-save, Resume, etc are fantastic. I love the elimination of clutter too (like the minimalistic scroll bars that appear for scrolling, but otherwise vanish to maximise the document view).

Sadly, ArchiCAD hasn't grown with it. The UI looks and feels poor on the Mac, and has become the worst behaved application I use. The layout and graphics look dated and out of place (think Windows 95), windows, palettes, and notifications are constantly fighting with the OS (coming to the front when they should be at the back, or vice versa), and none of the features of the Mac OS are leveraged. I'm hoping that a top-notch UI is now a priority for GS - it makes such a crucial difference. I'm also hoping that GS will strive to fit in with the host OS more in future too.

Re: Is ArchiCad supposed to be this cumbersome on a Mac?

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:54:33 GMT

Ralph wrote:
Personally - and from a professional standpoint - I like the changes that Lion has brought. Most of them are good for everyone. There's a few - like LaunchPad - that I pushed aside and never looked at again. I can imagine that naive users might benefit from it. But gestures, Mission Control, Versioning, Auto-save, Resume, etc are fantastic. I love the elimination of clutter too (like the minimalistic scroll bars that appear for scrolling, but otherwise vanish to maximise the document view).

LaunchPad was what I was referring too, don't really see the point either.
But would you recommend me upgrading to Lion then? Have you had any problems with it since it's new? Does it work ok'ish with ArchiCad? Any difference from Snow Leopard?

Ralph wrote:
Sadly, ArchiCAD hasn't grown with it. The UI looks and feels poor on the Mac, and has become the worst behaved application I use. The layout and graphics look dated and out of place (think Windows 95), windows, palettes, and notifications are constantly fighting with the OS (coming to the front when they should be at the back, or vice versa), and none of the features of the Mac OS are leveraged. I'm hoping that a top-notch UI is now a priority for GS - it makes such a crucial difference. I'm also hoping that GS will strive to fit in with the host OS more in future too.

I was right then, ArchiCad just doesn't feel or loog god on a Mac.
I'm surprised this is the case! Many people use Mac for 3D modeling, why has this not been a priority from GS?
And I very much agree; Windows 95... Spot on! 😛

Re: Is ArchiCad supposed to be this cumbersome on a Mac?

Ralph Wessel — Sat, 04 Feb 2012 13:43:28 GMT

Reeves wrote:
LaunchPad was what I was referring too, don't really see the point either.

LaunchPad is great for neophytes - the kind of person who turns on the computer and wonders how they might "find the button that browses the Internet". But it's designed to be easily tossed aside if you don't want it

Reeves wrote:
But would you recommend me upgrading to Lion then? Have you had any problems with it since it's new? Does it work ok'ish with ArchiCad? Any difference from Snow Leopard?

Yes, I recommend upgrading. ArchiCAD is exactly the same in Lion as it is in SL, but Lion is a good update. Auto-save, Versioning, and Resume greatly simplify document creation and management. You no longer have to worry about saving or making multiple copies of a document in case you might want to revert to earlier content. For example, if you launch several applications, start documents in each, and the power unexpectedly fails before you saved anything, the Mac will relaunch with all the application and documents open just as you left them. No data loss, no time relaunching applications and opening documents!

"Save" is a bit more like "mark a version" now. Applications are linked to Time Machine, so all the versions are recorded. You can step back through different versions of a document right back to its creation, and either restore the whole or selectively copy bits out. Very smart stuff. Unfortunately ArchiCAD doesn't recognise any of these features.

The gestures and scrolling changes are nice too. You can navigate back and forth between pages (or between applications or desktops) with just a flick of the fingers.A different gesture shows Mission Control, with all applications and documents visible and selectable. The change in scrolling took a day to get used to - it's now natural document scrolling, so you gesture up to move the document up (as if the page is an extension of your hand). Feels a bit like the display handling in Minority Report.

Loads of other stuff too - FileVault can now do full-drive encryption without fighting with Time Machine. There is also a hidden recovery partition on the drive, which kicks in if there is a failure in the main partition. Lots of good networking goodies too.

Reeves wrote:
I was right then, ArchiCad just doesn't feel or loog god on a Mac. I'm surprised this is the case! Many people use Mac for 3D modeling, why has this not been a priority from GS?

It looks dated on Windows too, but not so much because Apple moves far faster than MS. The UI is a quandary for all developers. It's a lot of work to overhaul, and comes at the cost of other new features in the main engine. In other words, the application as whole stands still while you work on the UI. But you can't put it off forever either. ArchiCAD has a long legacy now, and has been reworked several times. I think it's time to do it again.

Re: Is ArchiCad supposed to be this cumbersome on a Mac?

Anonymous — Sun, 05 Feb 2012 22:00:45 GMT

GS has comparatively small resources (say compared to Autodesk) and so must be careful where resources are expended.
As much as I agree the UI needs an overhaul there are other things that I would rate higher, such as multithreading palettes etc.
However, there is a point where an outdated interface may impact sales - and that is where GS must be very careful....