topic Re: Thinking of moving to mac.... in Installation & update

Thinking of moving to mac....

Arcadia — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 20:33:30 GMT

I've used PC's ever since I got a computer but the high end requirements of using the software that I am these days (archicad, photoshop, video editing) is causing me to re-consider as some of the PC foibles and the seemingly hotch potch way the hardware is put together is I think starting to slow me down a little. There are obviously issues of OS compatability for some of my packages which I may need Parallels for but my main question is for those that have made the switch from PC to MAC have you found the experience worthwhile in general and has the archicad experience improved in particular? And also should I go iMAC or MAC Pro? I am not looking at this immediately but sometime next year when my current system has at least a couple of years use so I would hope the OS Lion would be supported by then.

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Dwight — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 23:08:15 GMT

As a user of all the platforms at one time or another, here are some observations:

- the Parallels [VMWare Fusion is better] application doesn't universally work. If an application employs DirectX, it won't function regardlessly.

- most Archicad users find the iMac adequate. I have both the iMac and a MacPro in my studio. The iMac drive is noticeably slower.

- Archicad is no better on the Mac.

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Arcadia — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 23:21:53 GMT

Since you are using MAC yourself I assume you prefer it. Why?

The big issue I see with imacs is you can't upgrade them and you can't just buy a new console and keep your old screen and as far as I know you can't run more than 2 screens (I use 3 at the moment and would like 4)

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Dwight — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 23:36:54 GMT

I started in Mac because in 1992, that was the only way to have Archicad. It has remained a largely trouble-free and easily understood interface. The machines seem to last a long time and remain usable long after PC machines fizzle [anecdote]. Except that my 17" MacBookPro has fritzed its display after only two years - the only disappointment in twenty years of ownership. And I already owned a white hat.

It is true that iMacs have limitations, but represent excellent value and maximum coolness. In many offices, as they get obsolete, they are passed back to lesser demanding tasks, but will always be adequate for Archicad modeling.

The high-resolution 27" display is adequate for Archicad. You simply use a smaller plan view and sit closer. Sort of like the old cowboys versus Indians story: "White man make big fire and sit far away. Indian make tiny fire and sit up close.". Macs seem to have a 'looser' approach to screen organization making better use of a single display. I find that geezer eyesight limits my ability to appreciate a panorama of displays like in the old days.

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Karl Ottenstein — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 23:44:56 GMT

Dwight wrote:
- the Parallels [VMWare Fusion is better] application doesn't universally work. If an application employs DirectX, it won't function regardlessly.

I disagree on which is better, Dwight. But, it may just be comparing tastes in beers. 😉 I've stayed with Parallels and am satisfied... overall, as well as with DirectX and OpenGL performance. Not sure why you say there is no DirectX support. See these benchmarks:
http://www.mactech.com/2011/01/05/virtualization-benchmarks

@Arcadia,

Too many reasons I prefer OS X to Windows...

As for upgrading iMacs and multiple screens, do note that the current iMacs contain the new Thunderbolt port which support high speed external storage as well as daisy-chained monitors (as many monitors/pixels as the graphics card can drive). With a 27" imac and a 27" external Thunderbolt monitor, you'd have more pixels than four traditional 19" LCDs.

As far as keeping your old monitor from an iMac with a new machine down the road, note that the iMac does support "target display mode":
http://www.macworld.com/article/159616/2011/05/imacs_thunderbolt_target_display_mode.html

which is thunderbolt only - so you could plug a current iMac into any current Mac product with a thunderbolt port and use the iMac purely as a monitor. Presumably all future macs will support thunderbolt, but who knows if this standard will stick.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Arcadia — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 23:50:28 GMT

I must admit it is the prospect of rock solid hardware and reliable stable OS that is attracting me to the Macs. If I was to drop $8-9k on a Mac Pro I would want it to last 5 years and have an upgrade path after that. The last few years with PC's I have been upgrading my system every 2 years and with my current system after only 12 months I was getting instability that made me decide to do a fresh install on a new HDD. Plus the constant build up of registry errors and the threat from viruses that windows has etc etc. Getting frustrating.

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Dwight — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 23:56:16 GMT

It isn't about the software. High-performance applications like MachStudio Pro demand a graphics card performance only a dedicated PC DirectX card can deliver.

The new Thunderbolt XL5 technology certainly makes the iMac more versatile!

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Dwight — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 00:37:51 GMT

My main machine is an 8-core MacPro from three years ago. I still use a G3 from the dark ages [OS 9] as a plotter and SCSI scanner driver. Don't feel compromised in the least.

$8-$9K? A MacPro? What excesses do you pursue? $6K… TOPS!

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Arcadia — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 00:52:59 GMT

Well $6k would be better. I haven't actually priced in detail I just want to make sure I get something that will go the distance.

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 17:25:41 GMT

I think the iMac is perfect for Archicad. In the 6.5 years I've been with my current firm I'm on my 4th iMac. Starting with a 19"(?) G5 that is currently our conference room internet machine. The other 2 previous machines are still daily Archicad workstations for coworkers. My current machine is a 27" iMac we just got a week or so ago and while sometimes I think a second screen might be nice I fear my neck would get sore from turning to see the other screen... This thing is awesome.... Because of the increased resolution it's usable screen space is way more than the 3" screen size bump from my previous iMac...

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

ci-JoshOs — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 21:10:49 GMT

I've had nothing but trouble with iMacs - we have a couple of them in our office and they almost universally break in some way at about the 2-year mark.
On the other side, we use Lenovo/IBM laptops and I've only had one of them ever break, and it was ~6 years old at the time.
HP workstations are also very reliable - never had a problem with any of the XW systems.

The combination of Lenovo Thinkpad or HP Z-series workstation with Windows 7-x64 is golden. Rock-solid hardware and Operating system, great performance, good upgrade-ability options, and exceptional vendor support.

If you really must buy a Mac for some reason, make it a Mac Pro - the iMacs are the Dell of Apple products.

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 21:13:08 GMT

henrypootel wrote:
I've had nothing but trouble with iMacs - we have a couple of them in our office and they almost universally break in some way at about the 2-year mark.
On the other side, we use Lenovo/IBM laptops and I've only had one of them ever break, and it was ~6 years old at the time.
HP workstations are also very reliable - never had a problem with any of the XW systems.

The combination of Lenovo Thinkpad or HP Z-series workstation with Windows 7-x64 is golden. Rock-solid hardware and Operating system, great performance, good upgrade-ability options, and exceptional vendor support.

If you really must buy a Mac for some reason, make it a Mac Pro - the iMacs are the Dell of Apple products.

This is not true in my experience with iMacs...

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

ci-JoshOs — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 21:25:08 GMT

OK, but it is in mine.

Of the ~20 imacs I've had through here at some point or other, about 5 of them have broken beyond repair at about 24-28 months old, and a further ~5 have died but been able to be repaired by replacing hard-drive, RAM etc..

Also, upgrade options in them are close to nil, the CD/DVD drives are woefully slow and prone to failure, and the hard-drives give noticeably lower performance than similarly specced other systems.

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Dennis Lee — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 23:03:40 GMT

For what it's worth in defense of the PC, I always order a custom PC online, I usually just get the case (w/ power supply), motherboard, cpu, ram, graphic card, hard drive, and Windows 7 x64 Pro. I've never had anything break down since I've left DELL after a bad experience.

Plus, I can get top of the line in everything - for less than 2 grand, and a pretty good archicad workstation for about $1200 - $1400.

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Ralph Wessel — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 22:03:44 GMT

SteveC0013 wrote:
henrypootel wrote:
I've had nothing but trouble with iMacs
This is not true in my experience with iMacs...

Nor mine - I have one still running strong after 9 years. It's used for lesser tasks than ArchiCAD, obviously, but still a productive workhorse. My universal experience with Apple computers is that they remain productive for an extraordinarily long time. I've bought just one non-Apple machine. It wasn't cheap, and suffered a terminal motherboard failure after 13 months. When I want Windows for anything now, I just use Parallels Desktop.

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Anonymous — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 16:00:55 GMT

SteveC0013 wrote:
This is not true in my experience with iMacs...

In the last 6 years, we have used and are using a total of 8 iMacs, and have had never any problems.

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Anonymous — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 17:48:39 GMT

I have been using Macs since 1988 (System 6) and Windows since 1996 (NT 3.51). I have never had any significant problems with any of my Macs. The Windows machines have also been very reliable as far as the hardware goes. After my first Micron desktop I switched to IBM Thinkpads which were built like tanks (one survived a fire with only a damaged screen due to being stepped on by a fireman). Since Apple switched to Intel CPUs I no longer need to buy an extra machine to run Windows which is fine with me.

My main machine is about the same vintage as Dwight's (early 2008 MacPro 2.8 dual quad core) which has run flawlessly and is still quite sufficient for the work I am doing. This includes very large projects (450Ksf+) with multiple OSs running simultaneously. I did recently upgrade to 24GB RAM as it was getting a bit cramped with 20 (keeping in mind that I am dedicating 8GB to Win7 much of the time).

Like most I have known who have used both, I much prefer to work on the Mac. There was a time (Mac OS9 vs Win2000) when it was a bit of a toss up (with a bit of an edge to Windows for better multitasking and stability), but since the introduction of OSX 10.1 (10.0 was really a public beta) Apple has been advancing by leaps while MS struggled to get Longhorn... I mean Vista (aka Windows 7 public beta) out the door. Perhaps MS is now set to improve Win7 rapidly and well but based on past performance I'm not holding my breath.

BTW: $6K should be plenty for a new MacPro. The base 12 core machine is $5K and is just fine except for the 6x1GB RAM modules. You can then pay Apple $450 for a 12GB upgrade or just toss the stock RAM and get 32GB from OWC for about $350. Of course you can also spend another $1200 to bump the processor speed by about 10% but unless you are going to be maxxing it out most of the time or shaving seconds off of your renderings is critical this is probably not worth the cost.

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 04:23:37 GMT

I have been umming and ahhing about a new computer for home and after seeing the 27inch iMacs in the shops I have been seduced (have been a PC user up to this point) I find the more I research on the internet the more confused I get as there is seemingly always some reason not to buy now but wiat for the next edition etc. I've been suckered into this for to long.
I would like to know what you guys' thought are on some of the potential upgrades and if they are required. I've listed below the spec I am considering and would appreciate your feedback:

27inch Imac
Processor: 3.4GHz Quad-Core i7
Memory: 12 or 16GB
Hard Drive: 256GB Solid State Drive (I read this was a useful addition on Owen's macinteract website)
Graphics Card: AMD Radeon HD 6970M 1 GB GDDR5 (can upgrade to 2GB if recommended)

I am on Archicad 15 and believe this is ok with OS Lion. I had a go with a pen & tablet in the shop which was fun, seems the natural evolution for architect's?
I will be using the standard programs eg adobe suite, archicad

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Anonymous — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 01:40:34 GMT

Tambi-

Did you ever purchase your new iMac? I'm facing the same questions...how to get the most bang for the Apple buck. I'm hoping you've found some answers...

The upgrade from the standard 2.7GHz Quad-core with a 512MB card to the 3.1GHz core with a 1GB card for $300. USD seems an easy call...although there is another upgrade to a 3.4GHz core available. Not sure of the upgrade price.

Adding a second 256 GB SSD drive alongside the 1TB standard drive is another $600. USD question. I realizes boot up would be much quicker, but are there any other benefits for the daily Archicad user?

RAM upgrades from the standard 4MB to 8MB run $200. USD and going to 16MB is another $400. USD. Which of these makes sense?

I'm doing solo projects (no teamwork), lots of BimX, and running Artlantis Studio and Piranesi, etc.

Looks like I have too many options with too little tech knowledge. I want to throw my money at things that will really make a difference. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Regards-

Re: Thinking of moving to mac....

Eduardo Rolon — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 01:49:58 GMT

Dale,
There are new processors on the horizon 2-3 months out so if it is not needed to buy immediately you can wait for better prices or faster hardware.

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/