topic Re: Seeking advice on what computer to buy for ArchiCAD 12 in Installation & update

Seeking advice on what computer to buy for ArchiCAD 12

Anonymous — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 23:05:23 GMT

Hello all,

I'm a network administrator for a customer who has previously been running AutoCAD 2002, and is finally taking the step to draw in 3D. They are about to purchase ArchiCAD 12 and 4-5 new computers at the same time. A good opportunity to look over their IT platform on the client-side.

The budget has been decided, which means so has most of the platform: We're going to run MS Windows and MS Office on an HP xw4600 Workstation with 4Gb RAM, two disks in a RAID-0 set, and an Nvidia Quadro graphics board. The machines will probably be in use for 3 to 5 years, possibly running ArchiCAD 12 without future version upgrades during their lifetime (don't know how much cash the future holds). So I come here seeking advice on only a few remaining issues.

ArchiCAD performance:
1) Is there a difference in ArchiCAD 12 performance between an Intel Core 2 Quad machine and an Intel Core 2 Duo machine that have otherwise identical hardware?
2) Is there a difference in ArchiCAD 12 performance between a Vista machine and an XP machine that have identical hardware?
3) Is there a difference in ArchiCAD 12 performance between a Vista 64-bit machine and a Vista 32-bit machine that have otherwise identical hardware?
4) Nvidia Quadro FX3700 with 512Mb - Would it be enough, or should I get an even more powerful board? And how well are Nvidia's Quadro drivers doing these days?

Other concerns:
1) What would be a suitable display type for an ArchiCAD user? I've suggested 24-inch widescreen displays at 1920 by 1200 pixels. Would that be a good choice? What other factors should I look at when picking out a display?
2) What would be a suitable pointing device - I'm thinking Logitech MX Revolution Laser mouse. Good idea?
3) Artlantis - is it worth the extra investment? How does it perform in the different hardware configurations described above?

If you have any experience regarding these issues, please share your thoughts. I hope I've been detailed enough to inspire insightful and concise answers!

Re: Seeking advice on what computer to buy for ArchiCAD 12

Dwight — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 00:22:25 GMT

You want Artlantis, fer shoor, but using it requires some extra management.

You might find this surprising, but I'm suggesting two 20" displays placed side-by-each rather than one large one. More pixels at the same cost.

Archicad users have many smaller windows open and the fantasy of the big drafting board has passed.

Re: Seeking advice on what computer to buy for ArchiCAD 12

Anonymous — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 11:07:33 GMT

Thanks for your reply. What do you mean by extra management?
I'll think about those dual displays.

Anyone else?

Re: Seeking advice on what computer to buy for ArchiCAD 12

Dwight — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 11:27:44 GMT

In contrast to using the built-in LightWorks where changes are always current, when you export your Archicad files to Artlantis, it is never when the design is absolutely finished. There's always going to be another update. Managing HOW changes made in Archicad [or mistakenly made in Artlantis and not recorded so that when the Archicad file is re-exported, the changes are lost. AAAAArgh!!] are critical since there's a big investment in the Artlantis file - you'd usually do your better entourage elements exclusively in Artlantis.

It is easy to make a mistake and over-write.

But you need this application since it is the only practical and inexpensive way to put out an entire range of giant Development permit drawings in full color overnight. I'm writing an advanced book on Artlantis since I see it as a clear solution for architects that shortcuts obscure time wasting problems other applications have.

Re: Seeking advice on what computer to buy for ArchiCAD 12

Djordje — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:52:59 GMT

12 uses up to four cores, so quad is a good idea.

Artlantis uses as much as are present, so quad and Artlantis are even better idea.

Forget Vista, go XP64 - you will be able to use all the RAM among other things.

Add another 512MB to your nVidia. Check the Video card compatibility link at the bottom left of the title page of the Talk.

Think about the screens - is 24" REALLY needed? Maybe you should go with two smaller monitors?

I am using a HP xw 4100 for almost five years now; no glitches, no problems. Those machines hold on.

Re: Seeking advice on what computer to buy for ArchiCAD 12

Anonymous — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 17:58:03 GMT

Thanks Djordje, but I think I need you to motivate your choices from a performance standpoint. Why is XP64 better than Vista in that regard? And also 32-bit vs 64-bit.

I was hoping for choices made on a solid foundation of your experiences with ArchiCAD 12 rather than what we all feel about Vista. Many dislike Vista for different reasons, but those reasons are irrelevant to me.

Let me emphasize it again: I'd like to know about ArchiCAD 12 Performance!

So, my questions remain.

Re: Seeking advice on what computer to buy for ArchiCAD 12

Anonymous — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 19:33:10 GMT

VicVega
F.W.I.W, my comments on duel vs. single wide screen.
I had a nice duel set up, but then switched to single large screen for a reason that may not be relevant to your crew.
That is, as in my case, usually as you get a little older, you eyes don't adjust to changes in depth-of-field as fast, so I found
that having one monitor gave me faster and clearer readings on screen, especially if object/type was smaller, (less scrolling in and out and looking left/right/left/right). And even though my eyes are not perfect they are in amazingly great shape....So something to think about.
Especially if you like to sit close to monitor as I do, the change in d.o.f. is quite noticeable from one monitor to the other.
I now use a single Hp w2408 Vivid Color Widescreen with Birghtview, and on top of that it's adjustment of angle is just killer if you like to recline while working as I do.
Bier

Re: Seeking advice on what computer to buy for ArchiCAD 12

ci-JoshOs — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 23:07:06 GMT

Hope I can help with some of these:

ArchiCAD performance:
1) Is there a difference in ArchiCAD 12 performance between an Intel Core
2 Quad machine and an Intel Core 2 Duo machine that have otherwise identical hardware?

Definitely! I've done some fairly extensive benchmarking in our office, and my Quad-2.66 completes Section/Elevation generation in less than half the time that it takes a Duo-2.8 to do the same.

2) Is there a difference in ArchiCAD 12 performance between a Vista machine and an XP machine that have identical hardware?

I made the jump to Vista from XP about a month ago, and using the aforementioned benchmark, Vista performs roughly 10%-15% faster than XP did.

3) Is there a difference in ArchiCAD 12 performance between a Vista 64-bit machine and a Vista 32-bit machine that have otherwise identical hardware?

Not too sure, but you will definitely not be wanting to use 32-bit versions anyway because of the amount of RAM you want, and the chunky graphics card.

4) Nvidia Quadro FX3700 with 512Mb - Would it be enough, or should I get an even more powerful board? And how well are Nvidia's Quadro drivers doing these days?

Yes, it should do very nicely. If you are not working with huge 3D models, then a 1700 or even a 570 would do the job just as well.

Re: Seeking advice on what computer to buy for ArchiCAD 12

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 10:24:53 GMT

Thanks Henry, that was very useful. I'm still not sure about 64-bit. You haven't tested it at all? Since some apps are faster on 64-bit Windows than on 32-bit, and vice versa, I'm hoping to find someone who has tested ArchiCAD 12 in real life on both platforms on the same hardware.

Re: Seeking advice on what computer to buy for ArchiCAD 12

Djordje — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:34:42 GMT

VicVega wrote:
Thanks Djordje, but I think I need you to motivate your choices from a performance standpoint. Why is XP64 better than Vista in that regard? And also 32-bit vs 64-bit.

64bit is better than 32bit as it can use more than 2GB RAM per application. That is the basic reason. You know that better than I do.

I am old fashined and like to play safe with the OS - my OSs were DOS - NT4 - 2000 - XP. Note the absence of 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98 ... or MacOS ;D So, no, I do not have a personal experience with Vista - or time to experiment.

Sorry about the personal answer.

Re: Seeking advice on what computer to buy for ArchiCAD 12

ci-JoshOs — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:46:05 GMT

Thanks Henry, that was very useful. I'm still not sure about 64-bit. You haven't tested it at all? Since some apps are faster on 64-bit Windows than on 32-bit, and vice versa, I'm hoping to find someone who has tested ArchiCAD 12 in real life on both platforms on the same hardware.

I have only ever run 64-bit Windows on my hardware, so I don't know how well 32-bit would perform. However, given the fact that I have 4Gb of RAM, I think that being able to actually use that outweighs any potential slight increase in speed. Besides, even if your application runs faster in 32-bit, what do you do when they run out of memory?
Also, I don't believe that XP is a viable option for a business computer of the specification you are looking at. So long as you give Vista what it wants(lots of RAM, multiple cores), then it runs very fast. Boot time on my machine is about 30 seconds at the moment.
Worth noting too, is that after having just booted up and running only Outlook and Firefox, RAM usage is sitting at 1.9Gb, so anything less than 4Gb is going to seriously cripple you in Vista.
So considering that your hardware will run it very nicely, the only other thing holding you back(possibly) from Vista x64 is Drivers. This is the same problem as with XP x64. If you have older hardware(like large format printers/plotters) then you may have trouble hunting down drivers for them. If this is the case, then you need to either opt for 32-bit until drivers come out(doubtful) or you replace the old hardware, or run 64-bit on all the machines, and then run XP-32 or the like on a dedicated Print/plot server.
As for ArchiCAD itself on 64-bit, as I mentioned, I can't comment on the speed versus 32-bit because I haven't tried it, but I can say that I haven't seen a Heap-zone, or 'Not enough Memory' error for a long time.

Re: Seeking advice on what computer to buy for ArchiCAD 12

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:36:43 GMT

OK, thanks.

I would appreciate it if someone who has had some experience in the matter would post.

Re: Seeking advice on what computer to buy for ArchiCAD 12

Djordje — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 18:14:31 GMT

This might be useful in your quest:

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=25408

HTH,