topic Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip in Installation & update

New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

Varch — Tue, 10 Nov 2020 19:40:57 GMT

I'll bite. I'm looking at switching from PC to the Mac world. Do I get the older Macbook Pro with the older chip or get the new M1 chip? Will Archicad run on this soon? The 16GB ram seems a little low.

As a new Archicad user and Mac wannabe, I'd love to hear your opinions.

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

Lingwisyer — Wed, 11 Nov 2020 01:30:47 GMT

If you plan to use it in any sort of professional capacity, I would wait for a while for the launch kinks to be sorted out and full support to come around. There is bound to be all sorts of compatibility issues with various non-Apple products given the "new" architecture.

Ling.

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:35:33 GMT

Varch wrote:
I'll bite. I'm looking at switching from PC to the Mac world. Do I get the older Macbook Pro with the older chip or get the new M1 chip? Will Archicad run on this soon? The 16GB ram seems a little low.

For the M1 machines, I would certainly wait as Ling advises.

Because you are switching from PC, I guess I'd ask how much Windows software you have that you need to still run - either because it is only available on Windows, or because you'd have to purchase a new license to get the Mac version? The M1 Macs can not run Intel/Windows virtualization software (at least as of yet... if/when they do, it will likely be slow). But, the 16" MacBook Pro (Intel) can get beefed up memory, processor, graphics and SSD and can run Parallels Desktop or VMWare Fusion (and others) to let you run Windows 10 alongside your Mac apps while you transition. While "older", this machine is just now 1 year old, with a graphics bump added this past June.

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

Varch — Wed, 11 Nov 2020 21:51:52 GMT

Good comments- thanks. The Mac was really for my wife (also an architect, semi retired) but I figured I might use it as my opportunity to dip my toe into the Mac world. She mainly uses the Microsoft Office suite- which I is available in a Mac version. We also use Bluebeam which I know is no longer supported on Mac unfortunately. Eventually I'd like to start teaching her Archicad and get her a license for her Mac.

For me, I've still got a pretty decent Bimbox laptop that should be able to run AC24 pretty well for the next year or so.

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Nov 2020 08:10:31 GMT

Karl wrote:
But, the 16" MacBook Pro (Intel) can ...

/cut
The question is: how long will Graphisoft support intel Macs ?! As history can teach us, Apple will support them with another OS version after BigSur (may be two)... new Archicad versions works on the current and previous OS existing at the launch date. So I guess a new intel Mac will be completely unusable with new Archicad version at last in 2024.

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 13 Nov 2020 18:16:13 GMT

borgo1971 wrote:

Karl wrote:
But, the 16" MacBook Pro (Intel) can ...
/cut
The question is: how long will Graphisoft support intel Macs ?! As history can teach us, Apple will support them with another OS version after BigSur (may be two)... new Archicad versions works on the current and previous OS existing at the launch date. So I guess a new intel Mac will be completely unusable with new Archicad version at last in 2024.

Good point. I guess I have not seen any evidence to suggest that Intel Macs will not be supported for some time to come by both Apple and Graphisoft. Apple's XCode is already generating code for both Intel and Apple silicone and will continue to do so. Big Sur runs on both Intel and Apple chips and it, and future MacOS, will continue for some time so there should be no ARCHICAD issues in the intermediate term.

But, you say 2024 (4 years from now). Who knows. Maybe so, based on Apple's prior history when switching from PPC to Intel (which many of us remember well... eliminating Rosetta support for old software particularly messed up my workflow for a while):

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3563892/why-apples-move-from-intel-to-arm-means-we-should-stop-buying-macs.html

An Intel Mac, even if abandoned for OS upgrades down the road, can still boot as a Windows machine... so it is not as if all would be lost. It is a tough call though without specific commitments from Apple.

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

deivarch — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 04:46:30 GMT

At one point, I remember hearing during the AC24 presentation in the summer that Graphisoft had one of the developer kit MacMinis which I assume had the M1 chip in it? Any chance Graphisoft could discuss their roadmap for Apple Silicon compatibility? For now, we have to assume that AC24 will be running through Rosetta until AC24 is optimized for the M1. Just wondering, because the performance tests that a bunch of Youtubers are doing are showing the M1 to be a game changer.

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

Minh Nguyen — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 07:28:15 GMT

deivarch wrote:
At one point, I remember hearing during the AC24 presentation in the summer that Graphisoft had one of the developer kit MacMinis which I assume had the M1 chip in it? Any chance Graphisoft could discuss their roadmap for Apple Silicon compatibility? For now, we have to assume that AC24 will be running through Rosetta until AC24 is optimized for the M1. Just wondering, because the performance tests that a bunch of Youtubers are doing are showing the M1 to be a game changer.

Hello,

Thank you for the question!

I would like to clarify one key detail here: the Apple Transition Kit was equipped with an Apple A12Z Bionic, which is the same chip found in the 2020 iPad Pro (which is not a big difference compared to the A12X on 2018 iPad Pro). This is not the same as the M1 chip found in the latest Macbooks and Mac Mini. At the same time, macOS Big Sur was still in an early development state back then, therefore the integration between software and hardware was not optimized.

Currently, we are thoroughly testing the M1 chip to see how Archicad works on the new chip with Rosetta 2. There will be an article about the compatibility roadmap for Apple ARM very soon, followed by another article with detailed performance review of the M1 chip later this year.

Thank you very much, and stay tuned!

Best regards,
Minh

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 09:58:29 GMT

Thank you for the clarification. But could you be a bit more specific? Is moving ArchiCAD to Apple Silicon a priority? Will it make some use of Machine Learning (I imagine it could be useful for visualizations, counting of elements, elements conflict, "auto-add" a correct element).

Also, since M1 and the A series chips are both ARM, is there a plan to bring AC to iPad?

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

Karl Ottenstein — Tue, 24 Nov 2020 17:35:16 GMT

GRAPHISOFT just posted this article today on ARM Mac support:

https://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/knowledgebase/130674/

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

Gene Kniaz — Fri, 27 Nov 2020 18:51:56 GMT

The post seems very encouraging. I've also watched a number of YouTube tester-videos, and it took really heavy video processing (8K RAW footage to 4K), for the 16GB version to start showing performance gains over the 8GB versions, so it seems logical that Graphisoft has seen encouraging results.

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

deivarch — Sat, 28 Nov 2020 19:52:15 GMT

mnguyen wrote:

deivarch wrote:
At one point, I remember hearing during the AC24 presentation in the summer that Graphisoft had one of the developer kit MacMinis which I assume had the M1 chip in it? Any chance Graphisoft could discuss their roadmap for Apple Silicon compatibility? For now, we have to assume that AC24 will be running through Rosetta until AC24 is optimized for the M1. Just wondering, because the performance tests that a bunch of Youtubers are doing are showing the M1 to be a game changer.
Hello,

Thank you for the question!

I would like to clarify one key detail here: the Apple Transition Kit was equipped with an Apple A12Z Bionic, which is the same chip found in the 2020 iPad Pro (which is not a big difference compared to the A12X on 2018 iPad Pro). This is not the same as the M1 chip found in the latest Macbooks and Mac Mini. At the same time, macOS Big Sur was still in an early development state back then, therefore the integration between software and hardware was not optimized.

Currently, we are thoroughly testing the M1 chip to see how Archicad works on the new chip with Rosetta 2. There will be an article about the compatibility roadmap for Apple ARM very soon, followed by another article with detailed performance review of the M1 chip later this year.

Thank you very much, and stay tuned!

Best regards,
Minh

Thanks for the Update. I'm definitely excited to see how things develop!

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

Minh Nguyen — Sun, 13 Dec 2020 15:53:56 GMT

Dear All,

I would like to draw your attention to our latest article about Performance Review with M1 processor. I hope this will give you an idea how Archicad performs on this new platform from Apple.

https://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/knowledgebase/130695/

Thank you very much for your support!

Best regards,
Minh

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jan 2021 12:00:06 GMT

Karl wrote:
https://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/knowledgebase/130674/

According to our plans a full commercial release of Archicad natively running on the ARM architecture is to be expected in 2022.

Honestly, I find this timing a bit disappointing. I really thought that a universal version wold be possible with the launch of ArchiCAD 25 (at mid 2021) or immediately later.

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 06 Jan 2021 21:25:53 GMT

I think the important part of Graphisoft's statement is "natively".
For any application to run natively on Apple Silicon, all programs, code libraries, etc. the application depends on will have to be native first on Apple Silicon. This means that Graphisoft will have to wait for all those developers to develop their Apple Silicon-native versions.
So this is not like Graphisoft decides to go all in, and develop the Apple Silicon-native version of Archicad. Graphisoft depends on multiple other companies before it can do that.

Another thing to consider is the M1 chip itself. It has a maximum of 16 GB of RAM, which cannot be expanded further. This means that you will not be able to efficiently use an Apple Silicon Mac with applications that require larger amounts of RAM.
There is reason why with the announcement of the M1 chip, only 3 new Macs were announced: Mac Mini, macBook Air, 13" Macbook Pro. The more powerful Apple Silicon-based Macs will come later, and will be based on newer Apple Silicon chips, which should be announced later this year.

Just some pieces of information...

Re: New Macbook Pro 13 with M1 Chip

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 11:10:42 GMT

LaszloNagy wrote:
Graphisoft depends on multiple other companies before it can do that.

OK, I didn't be aware of this. Thanks for let me (and others) know this.

LaszloNagy wrote:
Another thing to consider is the M1 chip itself. It has a maximum of 16 GB of RAM, ...
/cut
... and will be based on newer Apple Silicon chips, which should be announced later this year.

This was more obvious for me. But as most rumours points to new and more powerful AppleSilicon based Macs in 2021 Q2, I thought and hoped Archicad 25 realise timing would be perfect for a ARM native Archicad too. But I haven't considered the point above.
Since GPU from my 2011 MBP 15" failed for the third time, I am on the way to buy a new MBP 15" or 16", but at last I decided to wait for the MBP 16" replacement with AppleSilicon, because I guess the ones with intel CPU will quickly become obsolete. In the main time, I'am able to work with Archicad on my even older MacPro, and do some job on 2011 MBP using only Intel HD 3000 Graphics.