topic Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac? in Installation & update

Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Anonymous — Fri, 11 Feb 2005 03:27:42 GMT

I expect to finalize a contract soon to provide Rendering and Animation Services on a large residential project.
I plan to use AC9 and C4D r9 as my primary tools. Part of my bid includes a bit of change to build a worthy workstation.
I have read some of the forum info on Mac versus PC. It looks like most people are leaning to the Dual G5 these days. I can't say i have a real preference for Macs, except to say that I am quite unsatisfied with my PC rig. WAY too many crashes/ down time because of failed hardware, etc. etc.
So that said, dollar for dollar (ive got enough earmarked for a dual processor system), which will support my software configuration the best?

thanks for your input

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Dwight — Fri, 11 Feb 2005 07:28:45 GMT

I'd swing to mac, but I have always been strange that way.

However, just having had a rather unhappy animation rendering experience - caused by asking for way too much from the machine in an unreasonably short time - I suggest you look into Render King's Render Ranch for your Cinema 4D rendering.

Way cheaper than a new work station.

Or do both. Hiring a render ranch lets you make corrections faster.

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Anonymous — Sun, 13 Feb 2005 03:52:23 GMT

What's Render Ranch?

I'm kinda curious. Can you explain your "unhappy animation experience?"

Also, I'm beginning to "need" a 30" Apple Display. Do I remember you saying that you have one, or two of those? Like 'em?

Would a 2.5 GB machine have helped you?

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Dwight — Sun, 13 Feb 2005 04:25:03 GMT

Making an animation is a bigger task than it looks.

I called it "The Night Of The Buzillion Pixels."
We we attempting a 15fps movie at 720x480 with LightWorks in ArchiCAD and getting frame rates around 20 minutes each going thru the kitchen and dining room that presented slick reflective surfaces and many pixels in fixtures and entourage. I had spent a lot of time building the scnes, materials and lighting. A superior set of stills, however.

My contract was to flythrough the apartment for two minutes. I had both machines working for days and finally compromised at 360x240 just to make deadline. I could have used fifty times the computng power, not double or triple.

Cinema is faster, but not double in speed. Therefore, you need to hire out the rendering to a commercial service like Render King where it only takes minutes instead of days.

http://www.renderking.com/

It is a matter of getting quality images in reasonable time. One machine can't do much more than a joke animation - small and 10 fps.... say for streaming video or CD, not to create a large DVD on a plasma screen.

In future, I will encourage clients to go for the half-second per frame cross-fade slideshow that progresses through the scenes, having extreme light and material quality and captions as needed. A very elegant and high quality response to personal computing limitations.

I have the Apple Cinema display 30" since November. From my posting frequency you can tell that I am in front of it a lot. I have yet to find a happy arrangement for ArchiCAD windows and neurotically shift them around all the time depending on the shape of the plan I'm working on - it can vary considerably.

While the PC Mag review observes that it is not a wide angle display - it does color shift when you get way off center, it is flawless otherwise. Well, not quite. When playing a video and the screen goes to sleep, you get funny lime green tracer lines when it wakes up . A quick on/off fixes it. Wierd.

I crave another one, but that is silly because with my eyesight, this is all that I can look at. More is just greedy. I would like another smaller one - a 20" say off to the side... but I can cope. The budget is blown.

My advice to ArchiCAD members seeking a larger screen is to cut cardboard rectangles to size and figure out how they will look at it all without ruining their necks. This becomes critical as you age - not that our younger punk colleagues will appreciate this observation. "What the hell is he talking about?"

Wait and see, sonny. Pass my cane.

The most economic way to maximise pixels right now seems to be 2-23" displays. That is a sweet solution. You avoid the extra graphics card that way. Of course, full screen DVD isn't quite as good on the 23".

Now that the 17" Powerbook can drive the 30" display, it will be a popular option.

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:28:08 GMT

Now that the 17" Powerbook can drive the 30" display, it will be a popular option.

===========

First, thank you for sharing your -vast- experience. I, too, am becoming "age cognizant."

Just this AM I visited the Apple Store here in San Diego, CRAMMED with people just minutes after opening. Wow. iPods are going fast. The Apple store must be the envy of all the "fashion" and running shoe stores in the mall. The store was packed. It's ALWAYS packed. Amazing. Wish I'd bought their stock when it was at $15 US last year. (It's $82 now.)

The 30" screen isn't that big, though two would be a real mouse and neck workout. You're right, a 17" Powerbook and a 30" screen might work very well. (If only they were G5 Powerbooks.) Let's see, that'd be about $4000 for the 17" with more RAM, and what, $3000 for the 30"? Actually, it's $6897.00 from their online store. Only $7431.52 US counting our local sales tax. Hmmm. For a G4. Hmmm.

I seem to remember a number of positive comments about two smaller screens. The G5 and two flat screens may be the way to go. That 30" doesn't seem to satisfy you, nor does it seem grand enough by itself.

I am planning no feature length movies, though we've made some very nice fly throughs with ArchiCAD. I freeze frame on key renderings, then resume the fly through, ...add music, ...nice.

Thanks again for your perspective on Mac hardware.

Now I'll check out the renderking link you sent. (Thank you for that too.) Speaking of high numbers, they must cost a bundle, no?

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Dwight — Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:42:54 GMT

You buy the 30" display because you get tired of the split screen.
With a desktop machine, however, you must purchase a special graphics card that can drive two 30" displays, so there's always that nagging itch.

If I sell enought books to pay for their printing, we'll see.

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:25:06 GMT

this weekend i talked to a friend of mine. turns out his firm runs exclusively on MACs. they use vectorworks and artlantis and have two dedicated g5 duals.

will the G5 run vectorworks/artlantis and AC9/C4D with the same performance?

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Dwight — Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:42:50 GMT

Since both ArchiCAD and Cinema 4D are better programs than Vectorlantis, I would say that you'll get better performance.

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Feb 2005 18:17:44 GMT

thanks dwight!

it looks like i am quite convinced on getting the G5 dual now.
Can you advise me on an adequate configuration?
i imagine 1 GB of RAM would be a minimum starting point.
how about the video card?

any other advice would be great too 🙂 thanks.
btw, can i plug a regular PC monitor in the mac?

LINZ

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Dwight — Mon, 14 Feb 2005 18:43:56 GMT

Plugging in depends on the display - the mac comes with a number of card configurations and adapters. Consult your supplier. I had used Sony displays with VGA for many years......

Since Mac gave up the proprietary ADC connector, it is now either DVI or VGA-type [?]. Neither is powered.

The base video card is okay until you want the 30" display that takes a bejesus big card - but then you can have TWO 30" displays!

No application as of today can address more than 2 Gigulonz of RAM. I own 3.5 Gigameggz which, sixteen months ago was the cheapest way to top-out the machine [2-256 supplied and 6-512 in the 6 remaining slots]

The hardest rendering ArchiCAD ever did addressed 1.85 G. Then there was smoke. Joke.

She slows down a little when Photoshop, two ArchiCADs, Silo, Cinema and Artlantis, Excel, Word, and the usual gang of idiots are open. I can even occasionally get the scrolling gray curtain of death. Go for the limit, I say.

I'm in Winnipeg starting this Wednesday - next Tuesday if you want to have a visit. Send PM.

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Dwight — Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:34:18 GMT

That is okay.
Stay.
You are a fine job in that regard from down under.

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Anonymous — Thu, 17 Feb 2005 20:48:25 GMT

"LINZ" wrote:
thanks dwight!

it looks like i am quite convinced on getting the G5 dual now.
----

ok, I have been watching this as I found the dialogue needed in my case (hi Dwight!)

My case is:
-a number of years on wintels always having an eye for the style of macs
-an office that runs on 3 of them plus a laptop
-the laptop needs replacing.

-I think of a monster custom made wintel laptop 4,3 Ghz with 1Mb ram and a good Card (that will fit into the team of pc's without me having to figure out the details) or ....
-This Power book you are talking about (a now or never case).

Watching this thread everything was going well untill I see the decision of getting the G5 instead of the Powerbook. So, as thinking about the money required I also thought of getting the G5 and forget my portable needs!! I would like to hear more about this decision. Why Linz moved from the portable to the G5?

My next question would be the compatibility aspect. If I go for the mac (portable or not) what I should excpect in regard to its accomodation in the wintel team. I use ArchiCad, Photoshop, my Outlook for scheduling and e-mails, word and stuff, a pdf printer and an Epson, three wintels connected together.

best regards
Constantine

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Anonymous — Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:22:46 GMT

im using a PC set up right now. never considered a portable.

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Anonymous — Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:05:58 GMT

LINZ wrote:
im using a PC set up right now. never considered a portable.

thought you were talking about a 'portable'
This is what mixed me up:
''Now that the 17" Powerbook can drive the 30" display, it will be a popular option.''

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Anonymous — Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:31:15 GMT

seeing as we're off topic anyway, a friend of mine asked me today why i wouldnt buy an imac instead of the g5. maybe is should. whats the difference?

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Eduardo Rolon — Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:34:20 GMT

Dual Processors, better video, expandability and you can add more RAM

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Anonymous — Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:45:26 GMT

ejrolon wrote:
Dual Processors, better video, expandability and you can add more RAM

I think that (back in my ages) on pc's ArchiCad could not use two processors at one time...(?) Is the case now different with ArchiCad on pc's and macs?

my main question is: P4 4.3Ghz laptop with 1G ram and good card or the 17" Powerbook?

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Anonymous — Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:25:02 GMT

ArchiCAD still uses single processor but can use duel processor when rendering in Lightworks. I think - anyone correct if wrong.

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Eduardo Rolon — Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:14:32 GMT

For software to use both processors it has to be multithreaded. I used to run 3DStudio on dual systems and though it claimed to be multithreaded it never used the other processor, but this was an Viz 3 and things might have changed. Most applications are not written to handle multiple processors, the ones that do are usually Photoshop and most off the 3D modeling/expensive ones since they are processor intensive. The advantage of OS X is that it is more efficient at handling processor and memory intensive apps than windows. IME in OS X I have been able to start a rendering in Cinema 4D and keep working in AC (and browse internet and check email) without having to wait for one to finish, in windows it didn't matter on the system, if I tried the combination between rendering in 3DStudio and working in Autocad I would have to wait for one to finish first.
My last machines have been a dual HP 1ghz, then an IBM thinkpad A31p 1.7 Ghz (felt faster than the dual), now using a PB 17" ( feels faster than the other two) and I just bought a dual 2.5 G5 which has not arrived yet.
IMO the biggest difference is the OS, OS X feels more responsive, stable and efficient than Xp and it handles multitasking better. One of the selling points of the current OS X (panther) was that it made existing computers run faster, that has never been the case with Windows.
My final comparison; P4 with Xp will feel more snappy than a PB G4 (open apps faster basically), PB will be more efficient at letting you do more than one task, G5's have more bandwidth than G4's because of bus speed and being 64bit. OS wise XP is still a 32bit system, OS X is already optimized for 64 bits and the new revision will be more so. A single G5 will be faster and more efficient than both the PB and the P4.

Re: Dual PC or Dual Mac?

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:16:43 GMT

Dwight wrote:

However, just having had a rather unhappy animation rendering experience - caused by asking for way too much from the machine in an unreasonably short time - I suggest you look into Render King's Render Ranch for your Cinema 4D rendering.

Way cheaper than a new work station.

Or do both. Hiring a render ranch lets you make corrections faster.

I'm assuming that you would need to have Cinema 4D program on your office computer and then just upload the final file to the Render King servers?
Having just gone thru the same frustration that you have with creating a short 3 min. movie, I am looking for better ways for the future. We settled for short walk throughs fading to stills. iMovie messes up the quality of the stills though.