topic Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur in Installation & update

ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

rm — Mon, 25 Jan 2021 15:27:42 GMT

We have been working with AC 24 and Big Sur, begrudgingly. Every piece of software we use is up to speed with Big Sur ..... EXCEPT for AC 24!

Yes, AC 24 works with Big Sur, but it is slow responding to commands, or pulling up complex 3D views. We are constantly getting erroneous error messages and frozen screens, which we did not have with AC 23.

Big Sur was released on Nov 12, it's Jan 25 and we still have not heard from GS that they have a stable and "safe" version of AC 24 running on Big Sur. GS continually is slow at getting AC to work with the most current version of OSX, continually blaming Apple. I'm not hearing the same issues from Adobe, Microsoft, Intuit...etc, etc.

Does anyone what the hold up is with GS?

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

Robby — Tue, 26 Jan 2021 05:58:21 GMT

I'm confused! you say:
"Every piece of Software is up to speed EXCEPT for AC 24!"

I took a look at Adobe's page of compatibility and known issues:https://helpx.adobe.com/download-install/kb/macos-big-sur.html#known-issues
And it doesn't much seem like they are up to speed...

I then get even more confused when you say that all these problems you have on AC24 magically disappear when you use AC23? Really? So AC23 is more compatible with Big Sur than AC24 ? Are you sure?

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

rm — Tue, 26 Jan 2021 16:47:20 GMT

Robby wrote:
I'm confused! you say:
"Every piece of Software is up to speed EXCEPT for AC 24!"

Let me clarify, erroneous errors and screen freezes we are now experiencing using AC24 with Big Sur do not occur with the same models being used in AC23 or AC24 running Catalina.

As a matter of fact, we also occasionally run AC24 in Windows 10 Pro via BootCamp on our Macs, so we can implement Lumion. In this configuration, we do not get the same error messages or freezes we are getting running AC24 in Big Sur.

As for Adobe software, are you using it? We use PS, LR, Acrobat, Bridge and Illustrator with very complex and large images. No screen freezes, no erroneous errors, no sudden crashes from hitting the "save" command, they just work. Same goes with our accounting software, printing software and the like.

Graphisoft sends us a bill every year for our SSA licenses, which manages to arrive on time every year. If you don't pay it, they terminate your license. They seem to have no problems with keeping on top of that.

For more than a decade now, we live in a world where GS seem bond to issuing new versions of AC yearly, to upsell features that often don't keep up with current versions of the Mac OS and in some cases, pending issues get left to for the next version, or never get resolved. I am not sure if this holds true on the Windows side with AC, as we don't use it as often.

Graphisoft needs to slow the release cycle of AC, quit worrying about AutoDesk and give us rock solid software that works without the caveat of "not ready for the current OS".

Attached is two separate screen shots of a building we are designing that we think is not overly large or complex. However, there is a lot of steel we need to hide in the design that we are working out. We are constantly switching from 3D view, to plan, to section and back to work out details. This is throwing AC24 with Big Sur fits, as it struggles often to regenerate view be they 2D or 3D. I also attached a typical, error message that pops up on screen, giving no useful information.

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

Laszlo Nagy — Tue, 26 Jan 2021 23:52:42 GMT

Robert,

Did you read Graphisoft's recommendations about Big Sur?:

https://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/knowledgebase/129835/

As far as I see, they stated clearly that they do not recommend updating to Big Sur just yet.

The potential gain of an OS upgrade should be weighted against the inconveniences that a downgrade may cause.
If you are using your Mac for work, we recommend waiting for several OS updates before upgrading to Big Sur.

It is highly recommended to read the macOS and Archicad article to learn more about this process and see our recommendations.

GRAPHISOFT plans to maintain the compatibility of Archicad 23, 24, and BIMcloud.

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

rm — Wed, 27 Jan 2021 01:14:06 GMT

LaszloNagy wrote:
Robert,

Did you read Graphisoft's recommendations about Big Sur?:

GRAPHISOFT plans to maintain the compatibility of Archicad 23, 24, and BIMcloud.

Hi Laszlo,

I would ask you the same, did you read my post fully?

Of course I read GS's recommendation; multiple times over the last 2 months, hoping they would change the status! The world, along with all our other key software developers, is moving forward with Big Sur, many are even ready for M1 Macs and Big Sur. I can't let GS continually hold our office back from updating to the latest OS from Apple. There is no excuse at this point for GS not to have a stable version of AC24 running on Big Sur, none - full stop!

The point of my post is that GS continues to take too long to keep up with the Mac OS every time a new version of the OS comes out. This has been the case for several years now, nothing is changing in this regard at GS. Lets not forget here, while Apple released Big Sur in early Nov., GS, along with all other major software developers, had access to Big Sur developer software, several months before the release of it in Golden Master last Nov.

My hope is GS will do a good job preparing for the new M1 chip machines Apple is transitioning into for the next two years.

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

Barry Kelly — Wed, 27 Jan 2021 01:27:06 GMT

rm wrote:
Graphisoft sends us a bill every year for our SSA licenses, which manages to arrive on time every year. If you don't pay it, they terminate your license. They seem to have no problems with keeping on top of that.

Correction.
If you do not pay your SSA fees, your licenses will not be terminated.
You still have up to the current version you have paid for and can keep using it for as long as you want.
I am pretty sure all Archicad licenses work like this - whether they be a physical codemeter key or software license.
It is certainly true for the physical codemeter keys.

You will lose the ability to upgrade to the next version (at no extra cost) and you will also lose other benefits such as support and insurance for lost licenses.

Barry.

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

rm — Wed, 27 Jan 2021 01:35:21 GMT

Barry wrote:

Correction.
If you do not pay your SSA fees, your licenses will not be terminated.
You still have up to the current version you have paid for and can keep using it for as long as you want.

I never stated that you can't continue the use of the current software, that's a given. I stated they terminate your license ( as in SSA ) which means no next update or priority support.

....... next?!

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

Barry Kelly — Wed, 27 Jan 2021 01:53:44 GMT

To me 'terminate' means gone for good.
We all know what you mean now which is what is important.

Barry.

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 27 Jan 2021 19:14:00 GMT

rm wrote:

I never stated that you can't continue the use of the current software, that's a given. I stated they terminate your license ( as in SSA ) which means no next update or priority support.

Other subscription software ceases working when the license is terminated if the subscription is not renewed. (Well, it varies. Other stuff becomes at least feature-crippled - e.g., Adobe Lightroom becomes read-only, other Adobe software ceases to work. Quicken looses the ability to download. Etc.). Hence, it is important to emphasize what Barry posted since all kind of people new to ARCHICAD or even just looking at ARCHICAD may come across this thread via a search. Your license is active indefinitely. Ending SSA does not end updates to THAT version... and updates are released for up to a year or more after the next version is release. It only ends priority support and updates to new releases.

All of that said, sorry to hear that you upgraded to Big Sur. I've continued to postpone the upgrade. We've been in this situation with prior MacOS updates and it is most unfortunate for people purchasing new Macs as they have no option but to run the most current MacOS.

Cheers,
Karl

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

Karl Ottenstein — Wed, 27 Jan 2021 19:18:40 GMT

PS. And here's what one of those "other" companies says for their software:

Autodesk:
Can I access my software after my subscription expires?

By:
Support
Jan 09 2020

When your subscription expires, you can no longer access your software or cloud services. However, you can still view and share your projects using our free viewers.

Note: After your subscription expires, you can't renew it. To purchase a new subscription, go to the Autodesk online store.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/search-result/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Can-I-access-my-software-after-my-subscription-expires.html

Again, this is in stark contrast to GRAPHISOFT which lets us continue to use our software indefinitely.

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

rm — Thu, 28 Jan 2021 21:21:46 GMT

Karl wrote:

rm wrote:

I never stated that you can't continue the use of the current software, that's a given. I stated they terminate your license ( as in SSA ) which means no next update or priority support.
Other subscription software ceases working when the license is terminated if the subscription is not renewed. (Well, it varies. Other stuff becomes at least feature-crippled - e.g., Adobe Lightroom becomes read-only, other Adobe software ceases to work. Quicken looses the ability to download. Etc.). Hence, it is important to emphasize what Barry posted since all kind of people new to ARCHICAD or even just looking at ARCHICAD may come across this thread via a search. Your license is active indefinitely. Ending SSA does not end updates to THAT version... and updates are released for up to a year or more after the next version is release. It only ends priority support and updates to new releases.

All of that said, sorry to hear that you upgraded to Big Sur. I've continued to postpone the upgrade. We've been in this situation with prior MacOS updates and it is most unfortunate for people purchasing new Macs as they have no option but to run the most current MacOS.

Cheers,
Karl

Karl -

Generally I find your replies to be very helpful to all users. In this particular case, your making a non argument and going off on tangents.

The point of my post is to state - GS is not updating AC fast enough to keep up with Apple OS changes - FULL STOP! The apologist here want to keep making excuses for GS. I have spent over 5 figures in my use of AC during my career, I am not letting them off the hook here. I expecpt premium service from a premium software developer. Comparing their model in fess to Adobe, even though I brought Adobe up, is like comparing Apples to Oranges. I referenced Adobe, because the suite of products is working as expected with Big Sur.

One last side note, I don't appreciate this thread being moved without notice to an obscure place in the forum without any notification. Why was it moved? I couldn't even find it without going back to my emails notifying me of post comments. Was someones feelings hurt from this post?!?!

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 28 Jan 2021 22:14:34 GMT

Hi Robert,

I'm sorry you thought my post was going off on a tangent. We moderators have a duty to correct false information here. You said your license would be terminated if you didn't pay your SSA fee. It will NOT be terminated. Full stop.

If you don't want tangents... don't bring up unrelated things, and false things at that. Enough said.

I don't know why the thread was moved by another moderator, but the forum it is in is where it most reasonably belongs. Any thread may be moved at any time by any moderator to a more appropriate forum. There are half a dozen ways to instantly find it - but that is off topic and you can ask about that on the Forum Related Issues forum if you want.

I share your frustration with the issues raised... but you did upgrade to Big Sur against Graphisoft's advice... and so at this point, I wonder what you are hoping to accomplish by continuing this discussion?

Karl

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

rm — Thu, 28 Jan 2021 23:51:43 GMT

Karl -

You just stated I made a false statement about information regarding payment of SSA license, which I didn't. Nothing I stated was un-true. I suggest you read my reply to Barry. I also suggest a correction here, on your part, is in order.

As for going against GS recommendations to hold off on moving to Big Sur, that is my decision for my business not yours. That said, if my practice used only one application ( AC ) and we didn't buy any new computers forcing the use of Big Sur (as you acknowledged occurs) I wouldn't think this is a big deal.

If you or any other moderator don't agree with my premise here, that doesn't make you right or me wrong. It means you have a differing opinion. A courtesy notification of the thread being moved would have been appropriate and professional.

Lets not make this forum like Twitter, FB and the like; that sensors opposing views to those of the "gatekeepers". This forum is supposed to be an exchange of ideas, whether you consider them useful to you or not. I hope in the future, the moderators here will exercise a little more judicious restraint before choosing to squelch descending opinions about the software.

Regards!

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

Laszlo Nagy — Fri, 29 Jan 2021 01:09:15 GMT

rm wrote:
If you or any other moderator don't agree with my premise here, that doesn't make you right or me wrong. It means you have a differing opinion. A courtesy notification of the thread being moved would have been appropriate and professional.

Robert,
I have moved your post because the issues you mentioned best belong to that category. We move posts all the time, I myself move about a dozen posts every week (many people like to post in the "Archicad+" forum when they have no idea where to put it). The forum software does not offer this notification option you are missing so we can not implement it at this time.

Let us not make this forum like Twitter, FB, and the like; that sensors opposing views to those of the "gatekeepers". This forum is supposed to be an exchange of ideas, whether you consider them useful to you or not. I hope in the future, the moderators here will exercise a little more judicious restraint before choosing to squelch descending opinions about the software.

You are talking about censoring, but tell me: Who censored you? Nobody.
Did anyone tell you that you must not post? No.
Did anyone delete your posts without a good reason (e. g. for breaking forum rules)? No.
This forum is a place for exchanging ideas and this is exactly what you, me, and other moderators are doing about this issue at hand.

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

DGSketcher — Fri, 29 Jan 2021 11:21:46 GMT

rm wrote:
The point of my post is to state - GS is not updating AC fast enough to keep up with Apple OS changes - FULL STOP!

Full agree but it isn't just with the OS, there have been a few headline marketing promises that have not yet appeared, polygon openings and an update to the MEP system are two that come to mind. I know the world is experiencing a crisis but these kind of delayed deliveries predate the current situation and are frustrating if your workflow would benefit from them, especially when you pay your subscription based on what was in the headlines. Back to the main point though, GS knows when the next MacOS is due and some users for various reasons need to keep their OS up to date, telling them that they should wait when other developers are announcing compatibility and new upgrade features is at best irritating.

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

Robby — Fri, 29 Jan 2021 13:00:20 GMT

Robert,

I guess the point of your original post was that AC24 does not work well with Big Sur. That is true and GS itself warns us to not upgrade. It is frustrating, but not the end of the world. You have choices: don't upgrade, or change software.
My problem with your posts are the inaccurate statements made along the way in trying to prove the point. Less opinions and rants and more facts = better posts!

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

Minh Nguyen — Fri, 29 Jan 2021 13:13:15 GMT

Dear all,

Thank you very much for your comments and I am truly sorry for the troubles and inconveniences!

As you probably know, we noticed a strange behavior called "heap corruption" crashes, that is happening since macOS Catalina. For more information, please have a look at this article. This issue seems to affect a small number of users with AMD graphics cards. Even though Big Sur has been released for quite a while now, we found that in some of our test machines, the heap corruption crash tends to get worse. Because of this issue, we do not recommend updating to Big Sur yet.

Nevertheless, if you encounter any issue with Archicad running on Big Sur, feel free to reach out to us via local support, or directly to me, and we will be very happy to help!

As far as I know, we did not receive any report regarding Archicad 24's speed on Big Sur, so I think this could be a rare issue. I personally tested Archicad 23 and 24 on Macbook Pro M1 (of course it is on Big Sur), and found no serious performance problem. Robert, if the problem happens with one particular file only, could you share with us the file you are working on and the way to reproduce the slowness for further investigation?

If the problem is not file-specific, we will need to collect some logs, called "Sample Process" when Archicad becomes slow, but please let me know which one is the case.

Thank you very much for your understanding! Looking forward to hearing from you!

Best regards,
Minh

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

rm — Fri, 29 Jan 2021 16:54:19 GMT

Robby wrote:
Robert,

I guess the point of your original post was that AC24 does not work well with Big Sur.

Exactly!

More facts, less opinion = credible replies.

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

rm — Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:02:08 GMT

mnguyen wrote:
Dear all,

Thank you very much for your comments and I am truly sorry for the troubles and inconveniences!

As you probably know, we noticed a strange behavior called "heap corruption" crashes, that is happening since macOS Catalina. For more information, please have a look at this article. This issue seems to affect a small number of users with AMD graphics cards. Even though Big Sur has been released for quite a while now, we found that in some of our test machines, the heap corruption crash tends to get worse. Because of this issue, we do not recommend updating to Big Sur yet.

Nevertheless, if you encounter any issue with Archicad running on Big Sur, feel free to reach out to us via local support, or directly to me, and we will be very happy to help!

As far as I know, we did not receive any report regarding Archicad 24's speed on Big Sur, so I think this could be a rare issue. I personally tested Archicad 23 and 24 on Macbook Pro M1 (of course it is on Big Sur), and found no serious performance problem. Robert, if the problem happens with one particular file only, could you share with us the file you are working on and the way to reproduce the slowness for further investigation?

If the problem is not file-specific, we will need to collect some logs, called "Sample Process" when Archicad becomes slow, but please let me know which one is the case.

Thank you very much for your understanding! Looking forward to hearing from you!

Best regards,
Minh

Minh -

Thanks for your reply. I am happy to supply the file to of the project we are working on that is performing slowly. Please let me know how you want me to forward it to you.

To be clear, the specific problems we are experiencing with Big Sur are as follows:

1. Escape keep often will not release a tool
2. Switching from Section, to Section, to plan back and for causes delays in screen redraws, sometimes no redraw will not occur at all.
3. Often get the erroneous error message, previously posted.

Interestingly, we recently updated our machines to 16" MBP with the following configuration. You have mentioned previously that some problems have been pointing to certain AMD graphic cards. Is the configuration listed in the included screen shot have one of the cards you are seeing problems with?

Re: ArchiCAD 24 + Big Sur

Robby — Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:20:19 GMT

Thank you Minh!

You mention that the problem with the AMD cards started in Catalina, are you saying its worse in Big Sur?

My machine has an AMD Radeon and I am on Catalina experiencing the random crashes as described in the article you mention so if I upgraded to Big Sur it would get worse?