topic student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3) in Installation & update

student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:46:07 GMT

Hi,

I teach archiCAD here at the university in Portsmouth and I have just upgraded my machine to Panther. ArchiCAD has been a bit odd and our reseller told me that I will have to wait til ArchiCAD 9 until I can get it to work with Panther. He said that Graphisoft are unlikely to update 8.1 to student version at all! Is this really the case? I really do hope not. Does anyone have any info as to any possible release for OS 10.3 - student version.

I hope Graphisoft get themselves in gear because it is a constant battle to keep ArchiCAD here in the school. Other people would prefer we dumped it all together.. I hope this doesn't make it the nail in the coffin as it were...

Thanks

Andy

Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

Dwight — Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:15:22 GMT

And just to keep the conversation on this topic going, what is the battle with? What would your colleagues prefer over ArchiCAD? Why? Is it a better teaching product or is the support just that much better?

If it is any consolation, we have similar problems in British Columbia....

Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:58:56 GMT

well I currently use Vectorworks at work but prefer archiCAD for modelling.

We are trying to get the students to visualise projects in their mind and on the computer in 3D. We have found that ArchiCAD suits us well for this purpose but doesn't seem to get the students drawing 2D particularly well.

My personal opinion is that AC is not as easy for 2D and lacks basic icon based tools for rotate etc and relies on menus and shortcuts too heavily.

Anyway back on topic.. any ideas on the state of play with AC 81. for os 10.3?

Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

stefan — Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:16:27 GMT

Our university version is still 8.0 r2/v2... and I still have to install the network-dongle, so haven't had a chance to boot the EDU-version (it didn't recognise my commercial dongle).

Too bad that 8.1 won't be supported (if this is true). And I don't expect 9.0 anytime soon.

--

We use AutoCAD in the classes and I can't convince my colleagues to make the switch. The strongest arguments for AutoCAD are:
- everybody uses it
- everybody needs to know it
- you can go anywhere with it
- what is ArchiCAD? Isn't this the same as MiniCAD?
- we won't change what we have

etc...

Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:22:48 GMT

ArchiCAD isn't the same as MiniCAD.

MiniCAD has been turned into Vectorworks a few years ago. Mainly to give it a professional name I think.

Anyone got any insight into the student issue? Is there an email address that I can moan to the powers that be?

Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

stefan — Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:40:53 GMT

theginjaninja wrote:
ArchiCAD isn't the same as MiniCAD.
MiniCAD has been turned into Vectorworks a few years ago. Mainly to give it a professional name I think.

I know. It was a joke (but not far from the truth) to illustrate how non-ArchiCAD-users defend the use of AutoCAD.

I've worked on MiniCAD/VectorWorks for 2,5 years.

Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:44:03 GMT

sure, but sarcasm doesn't translate over the net very well...

Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

Djordje — Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:55:37 GMT

theginjaninja wrote:
We are trying to get the students to visualise projects in their mind and on the computer in 3D. We have found that ArchiCAD suits us well for this purpose but doesn't seem to get the students drawing 2D particularly well.

Why?

Don't get me wrong, but if you don't show them, they cannot learn. Besides, I have seen too many "ArchiCAD is for preliminary design only, you can't do construction documents in it" people running university labs. Mostly because they themselves don't use ArchiCAD for production.

My personal opinion is that AC is not as easy for 2D and lacks basic icon based tools for rotate etc and relies on menus and shortcuts too heavily.

Never used VectorWorks myself, Stefan for example is a better person to answer this. BUT - the concept of ArchiCAD has proven itself - heck, even the BIG CAD MICRO$OFT is pushing the BIM!

Whether ArchiCAD is accepted in a school of architecture or not mainly depends on the person who is responsible, and his/her academic and politics status within the school. Just IMHE.

Talk to your reseller and GSUK to get the right info. All else is speculation.

Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:05:38 GMT

I do show them correctly thanks and I have quite happily drawn fully worked up schemes in ArchiCAD. It still lacks basic drawing tools though.

I fully buy into the archiCAD single building model..

Unfortunately I am not fully responsible as I am not a full time member of staff.

So is there any chance that someone might actually be able to answer my original post?

Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

Djordje — Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:08:37 GMT

theginjaninja wrote:
I do show them correctly thanks and I have quite happily drawn fully worked up schemes in ArchiCAD. It still lacks basic drawing tools though.

Like what? I really want to know what are you missing!

Any pertinent info will be forwarded

Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:14:13 GMT

The likelyhood of an 8.1 update being available for EDU versions?

"He said that Graphisoft are unlikely to update 8.1 to student version at all! Is this really the case? I really do hope not. Does anyone have any info as to any possible release for OS 10.3 - student version. "

Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:59:05 GMT

I think this answers the question...

8.1 student version will be available near the end of January.

Thanks and Regards,
D.
Daniel Pon
Technical Consultant
CA Remote Office of
Graphisoft U.S., Inc. - Boston (U.S)
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-US Tech-Support Resources
http://tr.graphisoftus.com/
-Users forums
Goto http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com
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Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:24:35 GMT

What is lacking is not the 2D drawing tools but proper documentation and training. I have found that most of the AutoCAD users I have trained have been impressed with how much easier and faster it is to draw in ArchiCAD; and some of these have been pretty advanced users. (I have also known some dyed in the wool AutoCAD users who have reused to accept ArchiCAD's work flow and went back to AutoCAD, but that is a different matter.)

Since ArchiCAD puts so much of the functionality into keyboard controls (shift contrains, option locks, etc.) and cursor responses (check mark, mercedes, perpendicular and tangent) which are not readily apparent to new users, there is a need to provide this information in a more obvious, up-front way. Perhaps a thin manual titled "The Most Important Techniques to Know in ArchiCAD" to be included with the program. A big part of the problem is that much of the elegance and function on these methods arise from the many ways they work together to make complex tasks simple and immediate. This is more difficult to document and explain than just the basic functions.

Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:42:04 GMT

Matthew wrote:
Since ArchiCAD puts so much of the functionality into keyboard controls (shift contrains, option locks, etc.) and cursor responses (check mark, mercedes, perpendicular and tangent) which are not readily apparent to new users, there is a need to provide this information in a more obvious, up-front way. Perhaps a thin manual titled "The Most Important Techniques to Know in ArchiCAD" to be included with the program.
A big part of the problem is that much of the elegance and function on these methods arise from the many ways they work together to make complex tasks simple and immediate. This is more difficult to document and explain than just the basic functions.

I remember the first time I used ArchiCAD : I clearly said "It's the most difficult program I've ever used"... 2 days later, I was presenting a complete project in 3D to a new client...

I then used ArchiCAD for a month, and missed the AutoCAD tools a lot, until I worked for 3 hours with a "fluent" ArchiCAD user that showed me how to extend walls without any menu command, connect roofs, and even create GDL objects... I was convinced.

All I can tell is that I had already tried to learn this by myself after having read the manuals, but there were so many exercises I couldn't do correctly I was rather disappointed (so I select the first wall with the selection tool, then select the wall tool and ctrl click on the reference line of the wall I want my wall extended to...)...

There should be a small video made and display the keyboard shortcut used to achieve it !

Matthew has the right term when you can use ArchiCAD : "Elegance"...

Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

Anonymous — Sun, 30 Nov 2003 05:53:01 GMT

stefan wrote:
haven't had a chance to boot the EDU-version (it didn't recognise my commercial dongle).

It won't, because the student version uses an entirely different file format than the commercial version. They have the same names, but they're deliberately different. What it translates to is preventing people from using the student version commercially, of course, but it also means that any work done in that version is forever lost once one upgrades to a commercial version. I anticipated building a library of parts during my academic career, and I didn't want to lose that work, so I bought the commercial version.

Wendy

Re: student version of 8.1 on Mac OS X (10.3)

stefan — Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:54:28 GMT

Wendy wrote:
stefan wrote:
haven't had a chance to boot the EDU-version (it didn't recognise my commercial dongle).
It won't, because the student version uses an entirely different file format than the commercial version. They have the same names, but they're deliberately different. What it translates to is preventing people from using the student version commercially, of course, but it also means that any work done in that version is forever lost once one upgrades to a commercial version. I anticipated building a library of parts during my academic career, and I didn't want to lose that work, so I bought the commercial version.

Wendy

It would be nice if ArchiCAD would be a student version when you boot without Dongle and it would turn into an academic or commercial version when using a dongle. I have a commercial dongle (bought it myself) and we also received a 32-license network dongle, but since I'm allready using 8.1 it is a pitty I have to return to 8.0 r2/v2 ...

edit:
By the way, 3ds max (and VIZ and similar) is developed as one application: depending on your registration, you have a trial, a student, an academic or a commercial version. Everyone uses the same version and can use the same service packs and updates.