topic Re: recommendations on a new computer in Installation & update

recommendations on a new computer

Anonymous — Sat, 12 May 2007 23:16:48 GMT

We are about to buy a new Dell computer. We need some help deciding on the graphics card and whether to go with a dual processor machine or a quad processor machine.

We have narrowed our choice down to a Dell Precision 690 with a 4 year onsite warrantee. This machine will be simultaneously running ArchiCAD, MS Outlook, MS word, Excel, Smart FTP, Internet Explorer and printing. Our data files are stored on a Network Attached Storage hard drive.

We will get the computer with two graphics cards so that we can run three 20" or 21" LCD monitors. We have tried the Matrox three monitor card but returned it because we were not happy with the performance. Our choices for graphics card from Dell are two 256MB PCIe x16 ATI FireGL V7200, dual monitor cards or two 256MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro FX 3500, dual monitor cards. The two nVidia cards would cost us about $600.00 for both cards versus the two ATI cards.

Is there any advantage to spending the extra money on the nVidia cards?

Our other choice is whether to buy a dual processor machine or a quad processor machine. Our choices are:
dual processor machine with Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processors 5150 2.66GHz, 4MB L2,1333

or a

quad processor machine with four Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processors 5120 1.86GHz, 4MB L2,1066
This system is about $500.00 more than the dual processor machine above.

or a

quad processor machine with four Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processors 5140 2.33GHz, 4MB L2,1333
This system is about $1100.00 more than the dual processor machine above.

Is there a substantial advantage to spending more on a quad machine versus the dual machine listed above?

If we do go with a quad machine should we blow our budget and get the quad 2.33 machine?

Thank you for your input and advice.

Mahalo,
John

Re: recommendations on a new computer

TomWaltz — Sun, 13 May 2007 15:39:17 GMT

One major factor to consider: Archicad is not multi-processor. While a 4-processor machine might let you run more applications at once, Archicad itself will not run any faster on a four processor machine than it will a single processor machine. Based on the apps you are running, I would not spend the money on the quad.

The only exception to that is the Lightworks rendering engine. It is multi-processor and will take advantage of the additional processors. It's your call whether you do enough renderings for that to be worthwhile.

Re: recommendations on a new computer

Stress Co_ — Sun, 13 May 2007 16:36:46 GMT

This is the one-and-only reason I preferred AC9 w/ plotmaker over AC10.

I could update my layouts in Plotmaker and go back to work in Archicad.
Worst case is always the layout with multiple Sketch-engine rendered views

On the plus side...It gives me time to catch up on ArchiTalk.

Re: recommendations on a new computer

Karl Ottenstein — Sun, 13 May 2007 18:38:15 GMT

Stress wrote:
This is the one-and-only reason I preferred AC9 w/ plotmaker over AC10.

Well, you can still do that with AC 10...by having one file having just the layouts and reference views stored in the model file. Have both ArchiCADs open, just as you used to have AC and PM open...

For small projects, the benefits of having everything integrated outweigh the benefits that you are missing from PM, I think. (Especially in 11 with Virtual Trace.) But, for larger projects, particularly those that bring in drawings from a variety of different files (and permit separate instances of AC to start to generate the updated drrawings)...breaking things apart and having multiple processors can be a benefit.

If you do lots of renderings, John, or video editing, then I'd go for the quad or higher since thoses apps will really take advantage of the extra processors. (All of LW, C4D, Artlantis, etc will use as many processors as you have.)

Personally, I'm sick and tired of all of the cr*p that Dell and other PC manufactures place on their computers that take hours to uninstall...followed by hours of doing updates because the computer doesn't arrive with current software... so I'm planning on moving to Apple for my next primary workstation.

Karl

PS Just checked the Dell site for the Precision 690 you are looking at, and it sure seems to be more expensive than a comparably configured Mac Pro...

Re: recommendations on a new computer

Anonymous — Sun, 13 May 2007 22:16:13 GMT

BANNED_Karl wrote:
PS Just checked the Dell site for the Precision 690 you are looking at, and it sure seems to be more expensive than a comparably configured Mac Pro...

Karl,

How much less expensive was the MAC machine than the DEll machine?

We would probably be open to switching to a MAC based system in our office except for two major reasons.

1) The software conversion would be thousands of dollars to introduce a MAC based system.

2) We use microsoft outlook for our e-mail, scheduling, contacts and general communication.
Because the MAC version of outlook does not have critical features that we use we are relucatate to introduce a MAC machine into the office. If all of the features were the same we would be more open to using a MAC machine.

Thank you for your input. It is very helpful.

Aloha,
John

Re: recommendations on a new computer

Karl Ottenstein — Mon, 14 May 2007 03:39:01 GMT

The configuration I looked at was around $700-$900 cheaper. And, the Mac hardware design is vastly superior.

But, the conversion is a huge thing, as you note.

Outlook isn't available on Mac OS X any longer...instead, Microsoft has Entourage, part of Mac Office.

Software costs are the big thing I'll be facing, too, as not everyone is as kind as Graphisoft and Abvent in giving you a choice of Mac or Windows for the same license fee.

But, each manufacturer has policies that can help. For example, if you're about to upgrade your Adobe Suite to CS3, you can instead crossgrade to the Mac platform. There might be an option to simply crossgrade. In either case, you'd have to phone Adobe direct sales. Maxon/Cinema 4D would also be a call to direct sales. Etc.

With Microsoft, you either have to eat it and buy Office Mac...or you can buy Parallels which will allow you to run your windows Office apps on a Mac running OS X.

Piranesi has a 'cross grade' fee of around $80 to move a license from one platform to the other.

And...of course, there's the option of just running windows on Apple hardware with Bootcamp....

A lot of hours whichever way you go... 😞

Karl

Re: recommendations on a new computer

Erich — Mon, 14 May 2007 04:25:12 GMT

John,

Just another thing to think about, the Mac machines can also run windows either via a dual boot configuration (running Apple's Boot Camp, currently a free beta download) or in a virtual environment with an application such a Parallels, or both depending on your particular need. This can be a good way to transition to the Mac platform without dumping the programs and process you are already using.

If you just want to get a well engineered PC and the pricing works out for you, then a Mac with Boot Camp works very well. I currently use my Macbook Pro in this configuration to draw in AutoCAD when working at home( our office has not yet made the switch from flat cad). About the only drawback I have found thus far is some of the keys are layed out differently with an apple keyboard.

Good luck with the workstation hunt.

Re: recommendations on a new computer

Stress Co_ — Mon, 14 May 2007 16:08:53 GMT

Karl wrote:
Stress wrote:
This is the one-and-only reason I preferred AC9 w/ plotmaker over AC10.
For small projects, the benefits of having everything integrated outweigh the benefits that you are missing from PM, I think. (Especially in 11 with Virtual Trace.) But, for larger projects, particularly those that bring in drawings from a variety of different files (and permit separate instances of AC to start to generate the updated drrawings)...breaking things apart and having multiple processors can be a benefit.

I want my cake and to eat it too. A Multi-processor Archicad.

Re: recommendations on a new computer

KeesW — Tue, 15 May 2007 11:27:20 GMT

I've bought two new computers for my office a couple of months ago. We bought them with quad core for the future. Although AC10 doesn't use multiple processors, future versions are bound to do so and it will save us upgrading when this happens. We are also running XP Pro64 (to be changed to Vista 64 when we get AC11) because a 64 bit OS can make use of more than 2GB of RAM.

We looked at Dell and yes, getting these with similar specifications to an Apple is much more expensive (in AUS a couple of thousand $ more). So we got ours built to quite high specifications which cost less than a Mac and was much cheaper than a Dell.

Re: recommendations on a new computer

Stephen Dolbee — Tue, 15 May 2007 12:42:50 GMT

John,

I have a Precision 650 (3 or 4 years old), and have been quite happy with it. One benefit of the Precision is, you can get it with one processor and upgrade in the future. The processor price will probably be much less by then. While I have always been happy with Dell/XP, like Karl, I also am thinking of switching to Mac. Either way, my next primary workstation will be a laptop.

Stetve

Re: recommendations on a new computer

Anonymous — Thu, 17 May 2007 02:55:20 GMT

KeesW wrote:
We are also running XP Pro64 (to be changed to Vista 64 when we get AC11) because a 64 bit OS can make use of more than 2GB of RAM.

What sort of performance difference do you get from XP 32 bit to XP Pro64?

Also do you have to buy a 3rd party pdf writer as Anyumi as supplied for AC10 doesn't support XP Pro 64 (AC11 will have in built pdf writer)

Re: recommendations on a new computer

Anonymous — Thu, 17 May 2007 03:14:09 GMT

After all of your help and input as well as some deliberation in the office we wound up buying a Dell Precision 690 Mini-Tower with two 5150 Dual Core Xeon Processors running at with 2.66GHz, 4MB L2 Cache 1333MHz and 4GB DDR2 ECC SDRAM Memory running at 667MHz.

We keep all of our data files on a networked harddrive so the only thing running on the system's hard drive are programs and the operating system which is WINDOWS XP PRO x64.

We are going to run three 22" LCD monitors so we had Dell install a nVidia Quadro FX3450 2X 256MB PCIe graphics card that can handle up to four monitors at once.

The deed is done, the system is ordered and we are looking forward to our new computer. If we experience anything unusual we will post the results here on the forum.

Thanks for your help.

Aloha,
John

Re: recommendations on a new computer

KeesW — Thu, 17 May 2007 05:16:17 GMT

Maurice

Not much difference, according to Adam Pressley at ap@aaarchitect.com who has tested Archicad performance on several dozen computers. The big benefit is being able to use more RAM and this should pay dividents - if not now, probably in the future during the term of my lease. My computer was 50% faster than the latest, dual Xenon Mac but I don't know what components are responsible. It is usually a combination of bits.

I use CutePDF writer and this works fine with ArchiCad. I am having some minor problems with Quickbooks Premier, my accounting system, but I don't know if that is due to XP 64 or a conflict between that and Archicad 10.

Re: recommendations on a new computer

Anonymous — Mon, 21 May 2007 02:19:35 GMT

KeesW wrote:
Maurice

Not much difference, according to Adam Pressley at ap@aaarchitect.com who has tested Archicad performance on several dozen computers. The big benefit is being able to use more RAM and this should pay dividents - if not now, probably in the future during the term of my lease. My computer was 50% faster than the latest, dual Xenon Mac but I don't know what components are responsible. It is usually a combination of bits.

I use CutePDF writer and this works fine with ArchiCad. I am having some minor problems with Quickbooks Premier, my accounting system, but I don't know if that is due to XP 64 or a conflict between that and Archicad 10.

Thanks for the update Kees.