topic Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD in Modeling

Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:33:56 GMT

Hi everybody, I've been recently working on a house renovation project using ArchiCAD 12. I was wondering if anybody can help me understand if what I did is actually a good way to use the software.

In the first place I've created the full model of the existing building with the data from the survey. Then I duplicated the file, and modified the building according to the renovation project.

At the moment I'm completing the whole documentation package for the submittal of the project to the city council. I'm keeping the entire layout book inside the second file I created, and I'm inserting plans, sections etc. as model views from the survey file. The problem I have is that whenever I modify the source file, the updating of those views in the layout book always takes a very long time, and often ArchiCAD crashes altogether! Both files are rather small (it's a single unit bulding, 3 storeys, 50m2 each) and I'm working with a brand new computer! (a 6 months old iMac). Is this normal?

Thank you!

Enrico

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

Mats_Knutsson — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:47:06 GMT

This should be under "Working in ArchiCAD". Basically you model and document with ArchiCAD whatever kind of phase/purpose/design etc. If it's renovation or new or anything else it is not important IMO.
Good idea to have the original intact btw. Then you can use Trace&Reference to show the new magic you do to your clients.

Have you been in contact with your support?
/Cheers

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

Nando Mogollon — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:15:53 GMT

Enrico wrote:
Hi everybody, I've been recently working on a house renovation project using ArchiCAD 12. I was wondering if anybody can help me understand if what I did is actually a good way to use the software.

In the first place I've created the full model of the existing building with the data from the survey. Then I duplicated the file, and modified the building according to the renovation project.

Hi Enrico,

I used to work with renovations about 2 years ago, the best Workflow for us at the end was something like this:

- Model the Original building on a PLN and save it as MOD file.

- Create another file (PLN or PLP If teamwork) for the Renovations.

- Hotlink the MOD into the PLN or PLP, on a proper "Master layer".

- From this file, you can "Demolish" some of the elements using the Mark Up tool. (this allows you switch on/off the objects and to to override the color of those objects to gray or red, accordingly to your standards)

- If you're using a PLP or the file gets bigger than 50mb (2 years ago) then move all the layouts to a different PLN and use it as an old LBK o Layout Book file.

- Link all the views to the Layout Book as PMK files, this saves you hours of updating drawings.

This is obviously not compulsory but is a way to do it that used to works well.

Hopefully this helps

Nando M

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

Karl Frost — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:18:08 GMT

We usually have our layouts in a separate PLN file as we find the main file size gets too big if the model and layouts are combined. However we often have trouble updating views, especially from Teamwork (PLP) files. While ArchiCAD rarely crashes when we try to update views it often will not complete the update. As far as I can tell this is possibly linked to an error or similar message when the file is opened e.g. ArchiCAD cannot find a particular add-on/item or similar resulting in a pop-up window that wants you to click "OK". If this happens during when you try to update a view I think the update fails because you cannot click the "OK"!
For this reason we are glad that PMK files have come back, even if it means using up more space on the server.
On a separate note I like the idea of using the Mark Up tool to edit the existing building model - I must try this out.

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

KeesW — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:36:03 GMT

Another tecnique is to make a copy of the existing floor plans, explode them, convert them into dashed lines on a demolition layer and lock this layer. Then place this locked floor plan under the live modelled plans. When walls on the live plans are deleted, dashed lines automatically remain.

This was explained at length in the NZ archicad book called "Framework" and we've been using it ever since.

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

Stress Co_ — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:07:33 GMT

Read HERE AEC Byte's Tips & Tricks for Remodels and Additions.

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

Arcadia — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:54:53 GMT

KeesW wrote:
Another tecnique is to make a copy of the existing floor plans, explode them, convert them into dashed lines on a demolition layer and lock this layer. Then place this locked floor plan under the live modelled plans. When walls on the live plans are deleted, dashed lines automatically remain.

This was explained at length in the NZ archicad book called "Framework" and we've been using it ever since.

This technique sounds very good and is certainly something I would try next time. The last time I did a reno I just converted any walls or elements that were to be removed to a dashed line type and wire frame and this worked fine also.

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

Karl Ottenstein — Sun, 13 Sep 2009 00:14:28 GMT

Enrico wrote:
Hi everybody, I've been recently working on a house renovation project using ArchiCAD 12...

...and, by the way, Congratulations on winning a free commercial license in the monthly "Experience BIM" competition!

http://www.graphisoft.com/community/press_zone/bim_winner_200909.html

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:05:32 GMT

We do a lot of residential remodeling projects. What we have developed is a layer system that allows us to differentiate between existing work (locked once completed), modified existing (i.e. placing windows or doors in existing walls or changing skins), removed/demolished and new work. It sounds complex but once you set up your layer combos and view sets it's great. It also allows more control over your materials lists. Only want to see new doors, only reference new walls layer.

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

KeesW — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 02:29:25 GMT

We have foud that the real issue with renovations is not layer control but things like junctions, priority intersections and similar issues that can completely stuff a drawing which contains new, demolished and old items. Archicad's inability to realise that 99% of users don't want gaps left in existing or new walls when the elements that previously joined at the point are removed or hidden causes inumerable, time consuming distractions. More intelligent defaults would help many users.

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

owen — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:26:48 GMT

KeesW wrote:
We have foud that the real issue with renovations is not layer control but things like junctions, priority intersections and similar issues that can completely stuff a drawing which contains new, demolished and old items. Archicad's inability to realise that 99% of users don't want gaps left in existing or new walls when the elements that previously joined at the point are removed or hidden causes inumerable, time consuming distractions. More intelligent defaults would help many users.

Sorry if i'm missing something but can't this be (mostly) solved using the Layer Intersection Priorities in your Layer Combinations? I know there can still be issues connecting skins of complex composite structures, but hidden elements should never be affecting visible elements if these Layer Intersections are set correctly.

I agree that the whole process is quite cumbersome though and not particularly user-friendly.

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:22:18 GMT

KeesW wrote:
Archicad's inability to realise that 99% of users don't want gaps left in existing or new walls when the elements that previously joined at the point are removed or hidden causes inumerable, time consuming distractions. More intelligent defaults would help many users.

Have you tried using the Intersection group number control in the Layer setting's dialogue box? With the help of this you should not have problems with visible construction elements getting gaps because of the hidden construction elements.
The best way to go about it is to have the demolished / removed construction layers with a different intersection number.

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:31:08 GMT

Ooops,

missed that Owen already had answered that.

Sorry about that one

Susanne wrote:
Hi

KeesW wrote:
Archicad's inability to realise that 99% of users don't want gaps left in existing or new walls when the elements that previously joined at the point are removed or hidden causes inumerable, time consuming distractions. More intelligent defaults would help many users.
Have you tried using the Intersection group number control in the Layer setting's dialogue box? With the help of this you should not have problems with visible construction elements getting gaps because of the hidden construction elements.
The best way to go about it is to have the demolished / removed construction layers with a different intersection number.

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

Thomas Holm — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:56:32 GMT

owen wrote:
Sorry if i'm missing something but can't this be (mostly) solved using the Layer Intersection Priorities in your Layer Combinations? I know there can still be issues connecting skins of complex composite structures, but hidden elements should never be affecting visible elements if these Layer Intersections are set correctly.

Agreed. I've been able to set up quite complex models, with layer combos using different intersection priorities, showing all of as-builts, demolition plans, and planned additions (in two or more optional variants), without any display or model issues.
The process may not be particulary user-friendly, but on the other hand these are complex issues to manage. And the setup I used wasn't too complicated, in principle just one layer combo for each final output.

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

Anonymous — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:41:56 GMT

Yes controlling the intersection priorities between the layers is time consuming at first, but crucial. Once you set up a template file for 'Renovations Projects' it makes life much easier.

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

Dave Jochum — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:46:04 GMT

Stress wrote:
Read HERE AEC Byte's Tips & Tricks for Remodels and Additions.

I've been using strategy #4 (existing PLN hot-linked to new PLN) for a few years and it works very well.

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

KeesW — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:59:31 GMT

Thank you all for your useful replies. The answer is, of couse, in setting the priorities properly and I'll have another go at it. However, Archicad's unintelligent defaults do cause lots of angst and impose the need to spend much time on housekeeping.

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

owen — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:58:46 GMT

I agree that the defaults are not great ... everything is set to 1 and so cleans up with everything regardless of layer visibility. This changed in 8 (i think?) - prior to that intersection was visibility based so you did not have this problem. The new system is much more flexible, although that does bring complexity.

One more thing to read up on is the effect a hotlinks Master Layer intersection priority will have on how contained element layers interact with the host file ...

http://www.archicadwiki.com/Layer%20Intersection%20Group

Re: Renovation projects in ArchiCAD

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:09:31 GMT

Those were very useful links Owen & Dave. Thanks. I have not used hot-linked files for existing documentation yet. Does it greatly reduce the file size of the 'renovation' file? Do you have to hot-link each layer of the original (existing conditions) file to the renovation file?