topic Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad in Modeling

How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Apr 2024 06:35:46 GMT

Here's an example rendering of what I'm trying to model:

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Steve Jepson — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 17:01:05 GMT

Calgary’s Peace Bridge. Cool Bridge. But what a disaster (in terms of construction).

There is noting I see in the picture that could not be modeled with ArchiCAD. There are many ways to do it.

Are you Modeling for the sake of generating Construction Documents for a similar bridge and all of the parts you model with need to be anatomically correct, or is this just some free-form approximation being used to generate a conceptual image? Will it be a real project model, or not?

This will make a very big difference in how you go about modeling something to generate the image you want.

Also, it makes a big difference in what sort of data ( if any) you need to extract from the model.

Another important difference in how you might go about modeling this depends on if your going to export the model to another program for rendering or not. Will you be needing to collaborate with others sending files back and forth? That sort of thing is also part of deciding how to model it.

And of course, it depends some on what version of ArchiCAD you are using.

You can model the tube and cut the holes you need in it with Solid Element Operations if your version of ArchiCAD has that feature.

You need to provide a little more specif information in order to provide you with more specific tips on how to do it.
Something that help people know how to give you some advise is to put the version of ArchiCAD you are using in your Profile Signature.

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 17:51:52 GMT

Hey Steve,
We are working in archicad 18, we need to create documents from the model, but it is merely for elevations, sections and rendering afterwards in artlantis 5.
Cheers

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Steve Jepson — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 18:08:48 GMT

vjdonoso wrote:
Hey Steve,
We are working in archicad 18, we need to create documents from the model, but it is merely for elevations, sections and rendering afterwards in artlantis 5.
Cheers

Cool!

So it is the curved and tilted I-Beams that might give you some trouble.
And how to get the curved glass that fits the openings perfectly. No problem!
ArchiCAD is perfect for this kind of thing.

Where would you like to start? I like to model in the same flow as the real construction process. This bridge went up in prefab sections and that is a good way to model it.

I would love to give you some tips on how to model any part of it.
What do you want to model first?
Being ArchiCAD users already, you are probably already well under way.
Are you stuck on something?

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Steve Jepson — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 18:14:25 GMT

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Steve Jepson — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 18:15:46 GMT

crude example but i-beams can be tilted like this:
http://screencast.com/t/9Kuaz7hVXC
and you can edit the profile of the beam as a Complex Profile.

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:30:08 GMT

Steve, well basicly what complicates us is the modeling of that curved beam and making de rounded glass to fit it, im guessing that giving that glass some kind of spider joint is impossible right?
Thanks for everything!

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Steve Jepson — Sat, 05 Jul 2014 00:07:52 GMT

It is much easier to do than say

I will give it a try with words. A beam profile is selected( you will want to make your own as a complex profile) and using the magic wand click on a curve of the radius you need.

Now you have the beam but it is in the regular vertical position. In the 3D Window you can convert that beam to a Morph and rotate it the angle you need and you will have a tilted and curved i-beam. ( Several other ways to do that part)
Mirror that one and you will have tilted intersecting curved i-beams.

The curved glass to fit the hole ( for lack of a better term) is also done many ways. I did it with the Elipsoid 18 object.
Place the Elipsoid in plan view centered top to bottom and right to left with the tilted i-beans. The in section views stretch it to fit the window opening.

like so. http://screencast.com/t/jUQgw3pK

Copy a second ellipsoid down the thickness of the glass. Use it as SEO on the other on. Convert to morph, Split whats left away from the beam and delete. Change to glass. Done. I will show more later but I am on my way to 4th of July picnic.

http://screencast.com/t/N4LqoXJ927lw

Another important part of modeling something like this is that you will need to make objects that are simply for the sake of having snap points or boundaries of some kind that you will use to adjust the model to fit. Little roofs off to the side you can use with the Look Perpendicular tool with to display things at some specific angle, save as an object, place back in the model, convert to morph, adjust for precision fit...

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Steve Jepson — Sun, 06 Jul 2014 21:16:44 GMT

holes/windows are easy to cut in a tube-wall complex profile.

To make the complex profile wall is just a matter of pasting a fill in the shape of the tube you want.

These are Rhombus Openingh 18 windows placed in a tube/wall. The opening on the top is just a matter of giving it a different height from the others.

You may want to make some custom windows or try some others. ?

Easily adjustable from plan view for spacing.

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Jul 2014 23:31:03 GMT

This is my problem, making the tubular shell folow this path, any idea how that can be done?

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Steve Jepson — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 15:29:32 GMT

Make a Complex Profile for the Tube. It's will be a Wall you can use to follow any path you can defile. The advantage of starting out with the tube as a wall is that you could put windows in it. Later, you might want to turn that into a morph so you can edit it with more rounded openings and such.

Personally I would model it one part at a time with parts that are as close as possible to the actual components it will be constructed with.

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 16:45:10 GMT

Yes i did that, but the problem is that the path it has to follow grows wider in certain parts and I cant get de wall to get wider in that part.

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Steve Jepson — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 18:32:44 GMT

You stretch the tube for something like that after you turn it into a morph.

Here is the thing to keep in mind.

ArchiCAD is not a free-from modeling program. The strong suit and purpose of ArchiCAD ( if you ask me) is that it is a program for turning free-form designs in to something that is actually constructable, documentable, dimensionable, and manufacturable.
(sorry for using so many non-words)

There is no such thing as free-form in a building unless your making a mud hut, and if you are, you probably don't need Plans for it anyway.

No matter how free-form the appearance of the structure is, at some point it has be assembled/constructed out of manufactured parts. How to take the surfaces and structural components of someones Blobitecture and document it's geometry (make Plans for manufacturing/constructing it) is what ArchiCAD does better than any program I know of.

Graphisoft would probably disagree with me, as will many ArchiCAD users, but my opinion is that Construction Documentation/Plans for Buildlings is the primary function of ArchiCAD.

To me, this is why we have only a small need for free-form modeling in ArchiCAD. It's real purpose is the exact opposite of free-form. It is a tool for eliminating that completely.

There is no such thing as free-form components in a building/structure made of manufactured components.

For the Architect that wants to design something that is visually a flowing, curving, free-form, etc... ArchiCAD is not the right program for that.

But when it comes time to turn that ridiculous free-form blob into something you can actually build, that is when you need ArchiCAD.

The pseudo free-form modeling tools we have in ArchiCAD are there to assist us in that process. Now if your using these tools ( Morphs/Shells) for the purpose of creating some sort of free-form model, you will be disappointed by how nearly impossible it is to actually make what you want. I find the Morph and Shell tools very difficult to use.

If you can define the geometry of your building components it can be modeled with ArchiCAD. Also, if you need to use ArchiCAD as a tool to help you define the geometry of your components, ArchiCAD is a really good tool for that too.

If all you want to do is free-form model a building of some kind, ArchiCAD is not the best tool for the job.

That being said, I have yet to come across something for a building that I could not model with ArchiCAD, and in a way that I can make the necessary Plans to construction/fabrication it.

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Steve Jepson — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 20:01:57 GMT

vjdonoso wrote:
Yes i did that, but the problem is that the path it has to follow grows wider in certain parts and I cant get de wall to get wider in that part.

Your not ready to model the main tube until those curves are dimensioned, perhaps some hot spots for reference, points of origin, etc...
If your just making some whimsical free-from variation of the bridge then ArchiCAD is not a very good tool for that.

Also, a tube like your describing with a continuously curving and changing oval is just plain stupid ( in my opinion only that is ). I am not interested in showing you how to model something like that. And if I did, it would not be based the methods of free-form modeling. It would be based on the idea that three is no such thing as free-form.

I could show you how to model and document building skins ( glass or metal clad panels) for a building shaped like a pile of bubbles if it were for the purpose of making an actual structure.

If you can get a model of an continuously smooth curving oval that is continuously changing in diameter with ArchiCAD it would be the result of deforming something. When you deform something like a morph or shell, you will need other objects that provide the snap points and limits. Otherwise, it will be nearly impossible to get what you want in ArchiCAD.

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 03:19:53 GMT

Graphisoft would probably disagree with me, as will many ArchiCAD users, but my opinion is that Construction Documentation/Plans for Buildlings is the primary function of ArchiCAD.

I agree with you on this point completely. This is how I earn my living - getting the documents out the door on time.

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Steve Jepson — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 14:44:17 GMT

http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2011/07/breaking-renderings-new-bridge-cityplace-front-street-west

http://www.arcspace.com/features/dominique-perrault/arganzuela-footbridge/

.

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Steve Jepson — Wed, 09 Jul 2014 15:44:24 GMT

This is a rational design. No free-form. And so it can be modeled with precision in ArchiCAD. Imagine now if it the tapered cones were not uniform and were following a curved path.
That is what I think you are wanting to do. Your wanting to take something rational and constructable and make it painfully unsystematic for the sake of art.

When the geometry for your bridge is defined and modeled with (Inventor,SolidWorks, 3DS, Rhino, C4D... then you can import the free-form model and go to work on it with ArchiCAD and transform it into working drawings.

http://www.arcspace.com/features/dominique-perrault/arganzuela-footbridge/

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jul 2014 16:24:21 GMT

Yes Steve, I modeled the complex tubular form in autocad using the loft tool, now I have to rationalize the cilinder and start making the construction elements. The first Thing I did was define a structural grid, im thinking of making curved beams that divide en 4 partes 2 for the top of the walkway and 2 for de bottom part

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Steve Jepson — Wed, 09 Jul 2014 18:46:48 GMT

If you have AutoCAD then the Sweep tool might be the best way to extrude an oval along a curved path, where the tube/oval is larger in some places.

Do you have the geometry you want into ArchiCAD yet? From there you can put a surface on it with the morph tool. Make it thin, and make it glass so you can see through it. It will provide boundaries for you to work with. It can be used with Solid Elements Operations to trim/form things to that shape.

Re: How to model complex tubular forms in Archicad

Steve Jepson — Wed, 09 Jul 2014 19:29:16 GMT

. the temporary oval/tube would be used in sections, cutaways, etc...to find the precise limits of the framing. And also for any cladding for glass surfaces you might need.