topic Re: best way to save details in Modeling

best way to save details

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:33:31 GMT

i'm trying to figure out the best way to create details that i will use in future projects like typ wall sections, etc. i've created them and they are all saved in one project as independent details. but if i want to use them in other projects i need to xref or merge them. i'll need to make adjustments to them to make them specific to each job. so what's the best way to save them? as separate solo projects or what?
thanks wb

Re: best way to save details

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:40:32 GMT

The simplest way is to save each as a module. You can then merge the ones you need and they will be editable for the project requirements. You could also save them as individual DWGs which would allow them to also be placed as drawings but I'm not sure what advantage this would be.

The way I have set these up is to put all the standard details in one reference file, create views of all the details and then create a publisher set to automatically save them all into a details library folder.

You will probably also want to publish the details to a PDF to use as a reference since there is not a good way to preview the modules when selecting them to add to a project. Obviously the file naming standards will be quite important if there are a lot of them.

Re: best way to save details

Richard Morrison — Thu, 24 Mar 2011 22:48:20 GMT

Why not just copy the office details file into your project folder and then have it open at the same time as your project file? Then you can just drag and drop details onto the project layout from the Project Organizer. All will then be automatically titled and numbered, of course, as they come in, and at the correct scale. Seems to me like merging modules is a lot of extra work. Your details can be organized with folders and subfolders in the details file View Map so they are easy to find. Also, your details file can have its own layout organized with details sorted by type on each page as a reference.

Re: best way to save details

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 03:22:42 GMT

Richard wrote:
Why not just copy the office details file into your project folder and then have it open at the same time as your project file? Then you can just drag and drop details onto the project layout from the Project Organizer. All will then be automatically titled and numbered, of course, as they come in, and at the correct scale. Seems to me like merging modules is a lot of extra work. Your details can be organized with folders and subfolders in the details file View Map so they are easy to find. Also, your details file can have its own layout organized with details sorted by type on each page as a reference.

This works well if you have a fairly concise set of standard details. I was speaking from experience with clients who have extensive and/or growing collections of details. As usual the best approach depends on the circumstances.

Re: best way to save details

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 05:32:06 GMT

i do have a lot of details, and will be adding more. my concern is that my file will become big and cumbersome. so i would like some system that would allow easy access to the details, be able to edit them, and not bog down the file. what is the office folder? could you explain this a bit more?
wb

Re: best way to save details

Richard Morrison — Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:24:58 GMT

Here's an in-depth description: http://www.aecbytes.com/tipsandtricks/2007/issue18-archicad.html

Re: best way to save details

Link — Sat, 26 Mar 2011 02:09:47 GMT

wildernessbob wrote:
i do have a lot of details, and will be adding more. my concern is that my file will become big and cumbersome. so i would like some system that would allow easy access to the details, be able to edit them, and not bog down the file. what is the office folder? could you explain this a bit more?
wb

Your file probably will become big and cumbersome.

All your details will create a live link back to the details file, meaning it will need to update in a background copy of ArchiCAD. Plus they are uneditable in the host file and if the originals are edited they can possibly update in all host files. This is all good if you have details that never or rarely change between your projects, but I couldn't imagine trying to implement that system with the varying types of architecture we do, plus all the people accessing them on multiple teamworked projects. It'd be a management and liability nightmare, so we use the publish-to-module method. We also publish to PDF from the same file, to create our catalog as Matthew said. Then we merge them into independent or live details depending on the situation. These can either be pre-placed onto layouts prior.

This gives us a quick way to build up our detail sheets, whilst still giving us the flexibility to alter the details on a project-by-project basis, and equally important is that it is easy to manage!

That's just what works for us anyway and it does depend on your workflows and goals, but I think that you can get too fancy with it all and just because all of this linking between files is doable, at the end of the day you need to come up with a solution that is easy for your staff to deal with on a daily basis.

My 2 cents.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: best way to save details

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Mar 2011 06:31:26 GMT

wildernessbob wrote:
What is the office folder? could you explain this a bit more?
wb

I just mean a folder on the server to publish all the detail modules into. It's also not a bad idea to put the PDF catalog in there as well. Some intrepid folks like to put it in the help menu but this takes a little more management and upkeep.

Hey Link,

I'm glad to hear you've come to the same conclusion. I have found it to be the simplest and most robust solution.

It also works for the maintenance of old DWG detail libraries, whether they are retained as DWG or converted to new layer and pen standards and saved as modules.

Re: best way to save details

Richard Morrison — Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:27:10 GMT

Link wrote:
All your details will create a live link back to the details file, meaning it will need to update in a background copy of ArchiCAD. Plus they are uneditable in the host file and if the originals are edited they can possibly update in all host files.

1. I suggested copying the master details file as a project details file. Therefore, you can edit these without affecting any other project.

2. If this project details file is open at the same time as the main project folder, updating will be very quick. (Probably a couple of seconds at most.)

3. While the details file may get large, it will probably still be under 10MB. Not THAT big. And with linking to this detail file, you don't get any bloat in the size of the main project file.

Publishing details as modules is simple, perhaps, but it seems to me that you have to take the project file and start creating numerous new detail views, figuring out what scale the view needs to be, titling it, merging a file, then placing it into layout. Why do all this when it's already been mostly done, except for dragging onto a layout sheet? What am I missing here?

Re: best way to save details

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Mar 2011 22:31:09 GMT

Here's my method... WARNING - paleolithic process will be described!

I have PLN files for 'storage' of details, based on types. I have a PLN for standard door / window details, structural, pools, wall assemblies, stairs / rails, etc.

Each of the PLN files have stories established for subdivisions of types and scales. For instance, my standard door / window detail file has a story for each different window manufacturer. My structural file has stories for foundations, floors, roofs, steel connections, concrete structure, etc. I use the stories as an organizational tool (that's the critical concept).

All my details are simple 2D drawings. They're drawn inside standard size boxes, or multiples of standard boxes. The PLN's are all scrupulously maintained to reflect the latest office standard as far as layer names, fill definitions, fonts types and sizes, etc. They only use four layers... one layer for linework and fills, one for annotation, one for dimensions and another for identification (titles, etc). These layers correspond to my 2D layers used in my model view sections, so that if I have my 'SECTIONS' layer combination turned on, my details are turned 'on', too.

To use the details contained in the 'storage' PLN's, I open the PLN that contains the details I want and copy them. I then go back to my project file and paste them in (see below for where they go). There, I make any job specific edits. Since I've been careful to maintain drafting standards in the external detail PLN's, the pasted details fit seamlessly into my project file's 'system' without adding extraneous layers, fill types, pens, etc.

Now to the using them in the project file...

I set up a story for each different scale of details involved in the project (In reality, these stories are part of my standard template). I've got a pre-defined 'grid' on each of these stories that gives me a full sheet of details for each of the detail stories defined in my template, along with a text label for me to fill in the sheet number it will occur on in my layout book. I paste the standard details into that grid. The detail stories are saved as views in the navigator, and are placed into my layouts like any other view in the project. If I have several sheets of details of a particular scale, I'll have several grids side-by-side in my model view and will adjust my drawing frame in the layout view to show each sheet on it's respective sheet in the layout book.

To create new or job specific details, I use the section tool to cut a section where I want to pull a detail, open it, copy the contents then paste it into the plan view on the detail story of the appropriate scale. I then edit or trace the resulting 2D entities to show what I want, how I want, and will frequently borrow pieces of my already-placed standard details to facilitate that. I take that result, move it into a box of the grid, and there it is.

I number my details individually. For instance, detail '1' only occurs ONCE in the finished drawing set, no matter what sheet it's on. On big jobs with lots of detailing the detail numbers can go into triple digits. Sheet AD1 will contain details 1 thru 15, AD2 16 thru 30, AD3 31 thru 45, etc. If I have details sprinkled throughout the set, this still holds true. Often, in that case, I'll skip several numbers to leave 'space' in the system in case I need to add another full sheet of details. The key here is to never duplicate a detail number... even if I were to screw up and have the wrong sheet number in a detail bubble, the user of the drawings could still rifle through the drawings and find that detail number on the 'wrong' sheet and it would still be the correct detail. I explain that to the builder at our 'kick off' meeting for the job.

The upshot is this... My details become a part of the project they belong to with no external references of any kind. If I were to transport the PLN file, it would have all it's data in that single file without trying to call any Xrefs or Modules from elsewhere on the disk. One of the problems with standard details is that they evolve... and I want that evolution to stop once they become part of an actual project... especially in the case where I've had to tweak them to fit specific requirements for a particular job.

Hope that makes sense... I wish i could =show= you how I do it... it would be much easier than describing it!

Still - if this interests you, and you need clarification, chime in and I'll provide further description.

Re: best way to save details

Link — Sun, 27 Mar 2011 10:32:41 GMT

Richard wrote:
Publishing details as modules is simple, perhaps, but it seems to me that you have to take the project file and start creating numerous new detail views, figuring out what scale the view needs to be, titling it, merging a file, then placing it into layout. Why do all this when it's already been mostly done, except for dragging onto a layout sheet? What am I missing here?

Hi Richard

I'm not knocking your method, you've always been ahead of the curve on this topic, and I have no doubt your system works well for you. So you're probably not missing anything at all, but my scenario is a little different.

First of all I have to put a system in place that is consistent with other systems we have, so that multiple users in interstate offices understand and use it properly. That involves keeping linked files to an absolute minimum.

Secondly, we teamwork every project no matter what size or type it is. I wouldn't particularly want to share a project specific detail file. And if I link it to a solo project it means that anyone accessing the file remotely would not be able to edit it, without requiring VPN access to our non-BIM Servers.

That aside, looking through a PDF catalog of details and drag/dropping the corresponding module files is very quick (yet it requires a conscious decision), and does not create the overhead of yet another link (in addition to any hotlinked modules, externally linked DWG drawings, or even the rare XREF).

Our template has an adequate number of linked and independent details that are pre-placed as drawings on layouts. All we need to do is edit the name of the detail (marker) and everything else takes care of itself, right down to the name in the drawing title, and the back reference. We delete the excess details which takes no time at all, leaving us with just the details we need and BIM techs that are accountable.

It's a system that works for us and it's not necessarily better than anyone elses, but I think it's good to discuss it!

Cheers,
Link.

Re: best way to save details

Anonymous — Sun, 27 Mar 2011 16:43:45 GMT

Link wrote:
It's a system that works for us and it's not necessarily better than anyone elses, but I think it's good to discuss it!

Of course. The best system is the one that works best under the circumstances of those using it and this discussion should serve to help some folks sort it out. Thanks to everyone for the input.

Re: best way to save details

Richard Morrison — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 00:53:51 GMT

In the spirit of discussing this further, I've just experimented with publishing MOD files, and found that it was far less onerous than I'd imagined. So I will retract MOST of my criticism of this. However, while the upside is that all of the details are internal to the project file and readily editable, which makes it very convenient, the downside is that it seems as if the main file grows rather quickly with everything in it. I understand that, for some firms, this advantage overshadows the file size, though.

One (I think) neglected option is the resurrected ability to create PMK files by publishing, similar to the MOD files. While these don't have the same ability to edit directly, they are TINY in size compared to a MOD file, and you CAN edit them by exploding them in a detail window, if necessary. However, you never have to worry about the correct libraries being loaded, since these PMKs are all converted to primitive elements. Yes, you do have a lot of individual files being linked, but they take virtually no time to regenerate. Just an additional option for discussion.

Re: best way to save details

Link — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 03:19:16 GMT

That's interesting - do you use any PDFs in your details?

We have hundreds of module detail files, and they average around 70kB.

Our project files hover around 50-500Mb in (database) size, so a few details is the least of our worries...

Cheers,
Link.

Re: best way to save details

Link — Tue, 17 May 2011 22:58:38 GMT

I have created a 'Standard Details in ArchiCAD' tutorial, in two parts, and thought there were worth mentioning here.

The first part illustrates our process of taking standard details and publishing them to module files and PDF catalogs. The second part shows how we can insert them into a real project and either link them to a detail bubble, or not.

Please bear in mind that our entire template is pre-linked this way, so this is just a continuation of our workflow. It may not work for everyone, but could provide some ideas on how to streamline this procedure.

Also, I am limited by the length of screencasts (5 mins) and the time I can spend on these tutorials (fortunately these go into our internal blog). So I do apologise for the speed and amateur production, but I certainly hope they provide more answers than present questions, and I do hope they help someone.

Part 1: http://www.screenr.com/z1y
Part 2: http://www.screenr.com/91y

Cheers,
Link.

Re: best way to save details

Arcadia — Wed, 18 May 2011 02:35:09 GMT

What I consider is the simplest method for my purposes is to have a number of details in my template file with each detail sheet containing a large number of std details laid out in a grid for a certain class of details or construction type. When I start a new project I immediately delete the details that do not apply to the construction type I am working with to reduce file size/complexity. Then I just resize my drawings on my layout a few times to show the correct parts of the grid for the details I need. I find working with references to external files cumbersome and prefer to have the details included in the file so that I can change them on the fly if needed. As I create new details in jobs I paste them into my template file so my detail library keeps growing and being updated.

Re: best way to save details

Rick Thompson — Wed, 18 May 2011 14:50:21 GMT

I keep all details parked in one pln. I combine laying and stories to generate multiple details without changing most of the components of the details. I currently have about 40 stories. I'll attach a screen shot. It allows me to quickly generate, and maintain (ie code changes) by changing one note for all variations (say of a roof detail and all pitch configurations. I keep many details on my template file, but new ones are easy to drop onto the layout via. organized as the pln is auto linked when opening any pln I have.

I find it important to have the source file Absolute Path as opposed to Relative Path, and manual update. I tend to copy plns and move a variation to another folder, so this keeps the details linked. These are important considerations. When I need a variation of a detail is easy to copy and paste the base detail on a blank section (or similar) and make changes... or simply add a white fill over the placed detail (or often in the case of different text make the new text have a white fill).

There is potential for this detail pln to go insane, but so far it has worked great for my work.... however, I have gone insane.