topic Re: Questioning the logic of the program in Modeling

Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Wed, 24 May 2023 07:10:02 GMT

I have been using ArchiCAD for a little over a year now and I am still finding new frustrations everyday as I work. Many of these issues have been resolved by patiently understanding the peculiar process as to correctly draft and model in the program. One issue that seems to be recurring is the general logic as to how the program represents the user's drafting requests. In particular, I find frustration that a program made to accurately portray the actual details of construction down to the sixteenth of an inch on window trim, seems to be completely bamboozled when it comes to something as pedantic as joining walls together in plan. If I want to accurately represent my framing in plan, then why does ArchiCAD insist that there should be a layer of gyp. that runs inside my wall cavity?

I understand that there are all sorts of tricks, work arounds, techniques, proper drafting/modeling standards and parameters that can sort out all sorts of messes. But my questions is why? Why can't there be a straightforward solution to such a simple problem? This is the issue I keep running into, there are no simple solutions. Please help.

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Steve Jepson — Mon, 16 Sep 2013 21:28:15 GMT

If the walls your showing are in fact the same identical kind of wall then they would clean up. There must be some difference. Are they on the same layer with the same cleanup priority numbers ? Perhaps you are running into this problem because you are unaware of the different places where this is setup and controlled ?

What version of ArchiCAD are you using ?

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Mon, 16 Sep 2013 23:21:16 GMT

I am running ArchiCAD 16

As far as I can tell these two walls are identical.

Same Layer
Same Composite
Same parameters (height, materials, pen types, etc.)
Considering I made one after another, I would assume that they are exactly the same.

If it helps at all, this is a consistent problem. When the model view is set to display wall composite information, then the relationship between the framing lines gets all screwy.

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Erich — Tue, 17 Sep 2013 02:58:44 GMT

Show us the Composite Structures dialog for this wall type. You most likely have your priorities set wrong.

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Sep 2013 14:03:41 GMT

This is an incredibly simple fix. Please go into the composite of the wall and send a screenshot. It seems like the GWB fill and the wall stud fill are the same priority. The wall stud fill should have a higher priority.

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Sep 2013 14:51:43 GMT

in the wall composite the priority for the GWB fill is set to 6
The stud wall file is set to 8

Just for giggles I upped the stud wall to 10

no change

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Sep 2013 15:05:22 GMT

Is the "enable skin priorities" button in the wall settings dialog box checked?

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Sep 2013 15:06:13 GMT

Button not checked....

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Sep 2013 15:06:54 GMT

Button checked....

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Sep 2013 15:38:05 GMT

Did that work?

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Sep 2013 15:38:30 GMT

Yes, of course. I forget it is always about that one button...

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Sep 2013 15:42:59 GMT

I always have that one button checked, I've never run into a situation where I would want it not checked.

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Sep 2013 16:56:31 GMT

Which brings to my initial question of the logic of this program. I am not sure as to what is intentionally designed into the program and which idiosyncrasies have just been absorbed as a part of the program.

For example, why is there an internal logic as to how objects are layered while drafting? I draw a fill, and it is automatically drawn below my slab, though I drew it to highlight an area above my slab.

I draw a curtain wall to fit within the empty window opening in the wall. But yet, the curtain wall is drawn below the fill layer of that window opening.

I know these are minor quibbles, but if ArchiCAD is designed with these aspects in place, then where is the extra layer of control so that the user can adjust these norms to fit their drafting standards?

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Sep 2013 17:56:24 GMT

sussudiokim wrote:
For example, why is there an internal logic as to how objects are layered while drafting? I draw a fill, and it is automatically drawn below my slab, though I drew it to highlight an area above my slab.

The program does not know why you are drawing a fill. It places it in a display order. You just have to bring the fill to the front of the display order.

See the below article on what element default display order is.

http://www.archicadwiki.com/DisplayOrder

You will see a fill has a lower display order than a slab, so it defaults to be hidden behind the slab. This logic was thought out, and explained.

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Sep 2013 18:05:51 GMT

sussudiokim wrote:
I draw a curtain wall to fit within the empty window opening in the wall. But yet, the curtain wall is drawn below the fill layer of that window opening.

I haven't ever used the curtain wall tool, but an "empty opening" is a type of opening, as is a curtain wall. So I don't believe there should two different types of openings in the same area. Maybe that is the explanation?

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Sep 2013 15:43:57 GMT

In response to the curtain wall:
I completely agree that it is very silly to put an opening inside another opening (as in a curtain wall in the same location as a window opening) but as far as I can tell, this is the only way to insert a curtain wall into a framed wall.

If there is a better way to do this then please let me know, from trial and error, this method seems to be the way to go.

And regarding the display order, this goes back to my initial question of why. I understand that ArchiCAD has a built in display order system, all I would like is greater utility and flexibility within that display order system. Something as small as an adjustable number attached to an object so that I could qualify the location of that object within the display order range.

Or, even better, the ability to change the preferences of how those display orders are arranged. I personally would prefer to have fill and line information to be above my slabs and walls, considering that I am adding that information for the final printed sheets.

I understand this is a small wish list, but what I am really looking for is a discussion on why the program is designed this way (flexibility in some areas and stringent stubbornness in others) because I seem to be missing something here.

Re: Questioning the logic of the program

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Sep 2013 15:56:21 GMT

Showing my ignorance with the curtain wall tool .... I had to look it up, never used it before.

The curtain wall tool is a wall (who'd have thought?), and therefor does not need to be inserted into a wall. It's not like a window. You do not need to insert it into an opening. Treat it as a separate wall.

You can create a "wish" post to have flexibility with the default display order of elements. Personally I don't find it too hard to send something to the back or move it forward in the display order. I actually created a custom toolbar which has those buttons in it so it's quickly accessible.