topic Re: Trim to roof anomoly in Modeling

Trim to roof anomoly

Anonymous — Tue, 23 May 2023 13:07:31 GMT

I've got a roof with valleys and when I trim the walls below to the two roofs forming the valley I get this little skinny piece of wall sticking up right through the valley. Anyone else had this problem and know how to fix it?

Rick

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Dwight — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:26:40 GMT

Yup.
The trimmer sees a gap and lets some wall through.

Either you are a sloppy modeler [like me] or the routine is misinterpreting.
I overlap the roofs to do the trim function and then move them back.

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Djordje — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:33:00 GMT

Select one roof plane, with the roof tool active. CRTL click the edge of the valley on the other roof plane. Repeat with the other roof plane.

See old ArchiGuide on roofs - all the basic techniques explained.

http://www.graphisoft.com/archiguide_archive/ArchiGuide_Online_6o/issue15/roofs.html

Still valid ... some stuff is obsolete, but the basic principles are there.

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Thomas Holm — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:36:12 GMT

Dwight wrote:
I overlap the roofs to do the trim function and then move them back.

This is an advantage of Trim to Roof over Solid Element Operations. Trimmed elements will stay trimmed even if you remove the trimming ones.

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:17:54 GMT

Djordje wrote:
Select one roof plane, with the roof tool active. CRTL click the edge of the valley on the other roof plane. Repeat with the other roof plane.

See old ArchiGuide on roofs - all the basic techniques explained.

http://www.graphisoft.com/archiguide_archive/ArchiGuide_Online_6o/issue15/roofs.html

Still valid ... some stuff is obsolete, but the basic principles are there.

To add to this one: sometimes the roof edges at the valley are not vertical. You can select the common Roof edge for each roof and make sure its angle is set to Vertical.

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Erika Epstein — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:04:47 GMT

select the two roofs and place your cursor where they intersect.
select the right-most pet palette button . this gives you the ROOF EDGE TRIM box. Here choose the Mitered radio button.

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Fran_ois Chatelain — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 11:26:52 GMT

Hi Erika,
why would you choose mitered in that particular example;-)

Cheers
Francois

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Erika Epstein — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:04:46 GMT

François,
I'm in the habit of just picking mitered although in the example shown I would get the same result had I chosen vertical.

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:00:37 GMT

Hi Erika!

Just when I thought there was nothing I hadn't seen before ... you present a strange new dialog!

I've always used ctrl-click (cmd-click) to cause roof edges to automatically meet and trim - or used the pet palette on a single roof element to get the roof edge angle customization dialog.

But, I never knew you could select two roofs and mercedes-down on their 'joint' to get this joint customization dialog. I just searched, and cannot find this dialog in the online help or the PDF Reference Guide.

Using this method doesn't work for me in a small test example in AC 12. I joined a 30 degree roof to a 45 degree one and viewed in section to verify the linework I was seeing in 3D. The 'vertical' joint works, but when I select 'mitered', the angle of only one of the two selected roofs is adjusted - the other is still vertical. I would expect miter to bisect the angle between the two roofs. You can see in the attached screenshot how the roof plane on the right is using the edge angle for 'miter' - but the left roof plane did not get re-adjusted.

I would have to manually use the edge angle palette on the first, read the angle, do the math, and then select the edge of the other roof for the complementary angle.

Did 'miter' work in earlier versions of AC with dissimilar sloped roofs? Wonder if this is a bug or user error on my part.

Thanks for showing me something new, even if the implementation might be buggy! 😉

Cheers,
Karl

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:08:44 GMT

Yeah, just tested again in case I didn't really have the roof edges in 'full contact'. So, I cmd-clicked each roof edge to make sure they joined (which resulted in a mitered joint). Then, I selected both roofs, moused on the joint, and choose vertical - and as the screenshot here shows, only one roof plane was switched to vertical - the other was left with its original edge angle.

So, I think its a bug.

Karl

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:16:41 GMT

Works well for me.
This is for valleys.

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:17:22 GMT

This is for Roof Top edges.

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Erika Epstein — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:59:18 GMT

Oooh, Karl I was so excited that I showed you something you hadn't seen before. Somehow that it has a bug, well OK, you still made my day. It's a treat to be able to give back to you!

Yes that vertical option is buggy. I noticed that it only makes vertical the last roof selected. I wish I could say that's why I always used miter, but I'd be lying. I used miter all these years because it always gave me the correct join without having to think about the angle.

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:14:14 GMT

I knew about this method. Link showed it to me years ago.
I used it when I had two roofs of unequal pitch and unequal thickness.
It used to work but now in AC 10 and in AC 12 it does not work.
Laszlo might see if he can get this method to work on
roofs of unequal thickness.
Thanks,
Peter Devlin

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:22:47 GMT

I think with Roofs of unequal thicknesses it never worked and it does not work now.
But as I see Karl's Roofs are of equal thicknesses.
Mysterious.

Edit:
What I meant by unequal not working is shown on the attached image.
It should do it like the red lines show it, in my opinion.

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:31:46 GMT

Karl wrote:
Did 'miter' work in earlier versions of AC with dissimilar sloped roofs? Wonder if this is a bug or user error on my part.

Vertical mitre worked in AC10, but not in 11 or 12!

It worked in AC10 with unequal thickness's too.

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Dwight — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:42:13 GMT

Regardless of how well a little detail like this works or not or it did and now it doesn't, I marvel every day that we don't draw in graphite any more. This whole BIM thing is so amazing and unimaginably complex........ at least for Graphisoft.......

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 21:06:57 GMT

I know now what the bug exactly is.

It happens both in the case of valleys and Roof top edges:
You select the two Roof element (their adjacent edges overlap, that's needed) and click the "Set Roof edge angle" button in the Pet Palette.
The little Dialog comes up and here is the trick: It always defaults to "Vertical".
Now, if you choose the "Mitred Joint" radio button, then it will perform the mitred operation on both selected Roof elements.
However, if you do not change the default selection (meaning, you leave it on the "Vertical" radio button) then only the latter selected of the two Roof elements will have its edge set to vertical, the other one stays as it was.
Try it by first selecting the left and then the right and using the Vertical mitre.
Then undo it and first select the right and then the left and use the Vertical mitre.
In both cases the Roof element selected last will only be modified.

This is definitely a bug.
Of course there is a workaround because you can select each Roof and set its edge to vertical.

Edit: rereading the whole thread I notice Erika already pointed out the exact nature of the bug.
Could have saved myself a lot of typing.

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 21:21:34 GMT

Karl wrote:
But, I never knew you could select two roofs and mercedes-down on their 'joint' to get this joint customization dialog. I just searched, and cannot find this dialog in the online help or the PDF Reference Guide.

Karl,
You can find some info at the bottom of this page in the html Help file:

Virtual Building : Construction Elements : Roofs : Set Custom Roof Edge Angle

But it is true that it is hard to find and there is not even a n illustration of that little Dialog.

Re: Trim to roof anomoly

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 22:41:44 GMT

laszlonagy wrote:
Karl,
You can find some info at the bottom of this page in the html Help file:

Virtual Building : Construction Elements : Roofs : Set Custom Roof Edge Angle

But it is true that it is hard to find and there is not even a n illustration of that little Dialog.

Thanks, Laszlo. I see it there now that I'm reading every word! Yeah, needs a new paragraph and a screenshot. 😉

I've filed a bug report...

Cheers,
Karl