topic Re: Grid snap does not work properly in AC15 in Modeling

Grid snap does not work properly in AC15

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:05:27 GMT

Archicad 15 grid does not work properly.

For example i have 1'x1' grid. My grid snap is on, and is set to snap to construction grid.

I click at the edge of a wall and move it down 1 grid space. Instead of moving it down by 1' at 90 degrees, it other angles.

and when i zoom in, i can see that it didn't snap at the grid, but the snap point is a little off.

Has anyone faced this problem?

Re: Grid does not work properly

Karl Ottenstein — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:37:36 GMT

Are you sure that your grid is not rotated?

Re: Grid does not work properly

David Maudlin — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:03:04 GMT

cfrb11:

If the wall is selected at a non-grid node (a grid node is where two grid lines intersect), the wall will get dragged to a grid node (a wall can be selected at any point with the Grid Snap on). One solution is to turn off Grid Snap and drag the wall the input distance to avoid this problem.

You should add a Signature to your Profile (click the Profile button near the top of this page) with your ArchiCAD version and operating system (see mine for an example) for more accurate help in this forum.

David

Re: Grid does not work properly

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:08:19 GMT

Yes i checked everything. the grid is orthogonal. In 14 for example you cannot snap to any other space other than the grid. in 15 it can snap to other points beside the grid even when grid is on

See attached

Re: Grid does not work properly

Laszlo Nagy — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 17:37:42 GMT

This is the expected working method.
I suppose you click the starting point of the drag vector, activate the Grid, then the end point of the drag vector will always fall on the Grid. The dragging vector will be calculated from the two clicked points.
If you first activate the Grid, then provide the starting and ending points then you should get the expected result.
Or you can specify the end node of the wall as the starting point of the drag vector.

Re: Grid does not work properly

Anonymous — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:52:29 GMT

Hi laszlonagy

I have worked in archicad 12 13 14, and in all once you have the grid - snap to construction points - turned on, it only snaps to the intersection of grid.

Here it snaps to weird points in between grids. I have turned off all other snaps, like snap to element etc.
I would urge you to try this out in 14 and 15 and observe the difference. It makes working considerably slower especially when I am developing initial concepts.
for example if i want to move a wall by 3 feet, i just move 3 grids, rather than entering the number every time.

Re: Grid does not work properly in AC15

David Maudlin — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:19:31 GMT

I don't know if it is a feature or a bug: in AC 15 you can select elements that are not on the grid when the grid snap is active, you cannot do this in earlier versions.

David

Re: Grid does not work properly in AC15

Laszlo Nagy — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:34:55 GMT

Good observation David, I did not know that.
This is indeed true and it was not possible in earlier versions. So this is why it works differently in AC15.
Actually, I like the way it now works in AC15 better and it makes more sense to me.

Re: Grid does not work properly in AC15

Anonymous — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:48:08 GMT

Hello laszlonagy and David,

thanks for taking your time in looking into this situation.
In previous versions you can select walls, slab etc that are not aligned with the grid if you click on the middle.

The problem is in 15, it snaps to random locations that are not on the grid even when the grid snap is turned on. and the wall or slab is aligned with the grid.
Whats the point of choosing snap to grids when it does not work? I might as well just keep the snap to grid off. So this is a bug.

to test this bug you can make make a gird 1'x1' , choose snap to construction point, and draw a wall while grid is on. then select the wall and move it down. do this in both 14 and 15. (see illustration)

in previous versions the walls moves down by 90 degrees, but in 15 it will move down at weird angles... 88.4, 75.7 etc.. So this creates inaccuracies through out the drawing.

Re: Grid does not work properly in AC15

Laszlo Nagy — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:03:17 GMT

The difference between AC14 and AC15 that in AC15 now the smart cursor senses the reference line of the Wall even when Snap Grid is ON. I think this is a good thing and an added functionality.
So the thing to do is when you define the starting point of the drag vector make sure your cursor is not over the reference line of the Wall (the cursor shape is not a mercedes sign) and it will snap to the construction grid. You just have to do it a little bit differently.

Re: Grid does not work properly in AC15

Anonymous — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:49:14 GMT

Hi
We have smart cursor even in 14, if the wall is aligned with the grid, it will have mercedes sign and you can move it.
in 15 in the same situation, wall is aligned with the grid, and I click at a point on the wall with the grid on.. but it does not snap at the intersection of wall edge and grid, instead it snaps to some arbitrary points along the wall.

And just to point out, this problem is not unique to walls, it is with all elements with an edge, slabs, columns, roof, beams, lines, fills etc. most of which do not have reference lines. So this is a grid problem, and not reference line snap problem.

It should be a simple hotfix if this problem is show to the archicad

Re: Grid does not work properly in AC15

Laszlo Nagy — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:16:47 GMT

The reason the mercedes cursor is shown is because with a horizontal wall, the reference line of which is on the grid, grid points fall on the Wall so the Mercedes cursor is shown. That is a special case.
Try this same thing on a Wall the reference line of which is not on the grid (the Wall is at a general location or it is slanted) and you will see the difference. You will not see the Mercedes cursor if there is now Wall Reference Line going through the grid point you are at.
Works the same way with polygonal element edges.

If you want to drag from grid point to grid point vertically, then either:
1. Click the end point of the Wall that is on a grid point so ArchiCAD will find the end node of the Wall and not some general point of the Wall's reference line, or
2. Click anywhere at a grid point and drag it to another grid point at 90 degrees angle.

You don't have to click on the Wall at all to define the drag vector. Both the starting and end point of the drag vector can be anywhere you want.

Re: Grid does not work properly in AC15

Anonymous — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 19:22:37 GMT

Hello
Thanks for your discussion. Yes I see what you mean, the the cursor will snap to the element edges, and end points even when they are not aligned with the gird.
[i find that bad too.. cause that's how I usually check if walls are placed properly, or if they are orthogonal.]

You see, Not being able to snap at the intersection of an edge and grid points IS the problem, Thats why I have shown how you can reproduce it through he wall examples.
Your suggestions are, well then don't snap on the edge... snap in some other points...
I have been doing exactly that, but these are work around to the problem and not the solution.

the grid should override the other snaps like in older versions.
also it snaps to arbitrary points along the edge even when "element snap" is turned off
and if neither can be solved, there should be at least a way to disable this smart snaps... [which i tried, Work environment - mouse constraints - cursor snap range - there you cannot put 0 pixel, min is 1 pixel]

Re: Grid does not work properly in AC15

Laszlo Nagy — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 19:35:13 GMT

Intersection is only possible between two edges.
It is not possible between an edge and a point.
The Grid in ArchiCAD is not a pattern of lines, it is a pattern of points. The fact that you see lines going horizontally and vertically through grid points is a visual aid.
But the Grid is still just that: points.

Re: Grid does not work properly in AC15

Anonymous — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 19:38:09 GMT

yes.. gird is a point.. but we are able to snap to the grid points and the element edges in all previous versions of archicad, so y cant we do it in ac15

Re: Grid does not work properly in AC15

Laszlo Nagy — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:24:55 GMT

As I said earlier, the fact that you could snap to an element edge with the Grid Snap ON was incidental. It was only when that element edge went through the grid point exactly.
So technically you snapped to a Grid point, not the element edge.

The fact that under special circumstances you could use that to drag elements was incidental, not intentional.
You can still do it: not by clicking on a Grid Point where and edge is, but by clicking anywhere else. The basic functionality is still there.

Re: Grid does not work properly in AC15

Anonymous — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 22:34:36 GMT

hi
If you are saying that being able to snap at grid points and element edges of previous versions was incidental, then there should be a way to turn off the snap option so that I can rely entirely on grid.

right now even if I turn off "snap to elements", it still snaps to these random points. and this makes working with grid inaccurate.

advantage of working with grid is that it is absolute, so if I have 10'x10' grid for columns, I set up my grids accordingly and work.. this way I know they are placed exactly at that point, and there is no error in entering numbers or .. they are off by 1/32" here and there .. due to placement errors.

Re: Grid does not work properly in AC15

Laszlo Nagy — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 23:36:09 GMT

Hm, I think I can see now what you are driving at.
So basically the problem is that now during drag operations ArchiCAD senses the reference lines and edges of elements there can be cases when it does something different from what you want it to do.
So let us say a Wall's reference line is very near to a Grid Snap point. You want to click the Grid Snap Point that is very close to the Wall Reference Line to specify the starting point of the drag vector, but ArchiCAD senses the Reference Line of the Wall and based on exactly where in the vicinity of the Grid Snap point the cursor is, it snaps to a point of the Reference Line of the Wall. Which is not what you want because you want it to snap to the Grid Snap Point. The same way in worked in previous versions.

That is true and I understand now that this is what bugs you that you now have to change how you work.
All I can say is repeat myself: you would either have get yourself accustomed to clicking on a Grid Snap point that is not near an element edge or you need to zoom in enough so the Grid Snap Point and the element edge are more than 4-5 pixels away from each other and ArchiCAD will take the Grid Snap Point as an input.

Still, I maintain that in my opinion it is a better feature this way. I am sorry that you will have to change your way of working because of this.

Re: Grid does not work properly in AC15

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:34:27 GMT

Hello Lasz
ya you finally get what I am trying to point out. There are obviously workarounds.. but I am trying to show the problem.

Unfortunately now grid tool that was so useful in previous versions is almost unusable. Especially when you have lot of elements in your work space.
I move things by 10' 90 degrees.. only to later find it moved by 90.2 degrees.. etc. so each time I move, rotate copy anything, 2d or 3d. i have to zoom in all the way each time just to make sure they did not snap to random edges. this has slowed down my work considerably.

All these lack of confidence in the grid, and not being able to disable the edge snaps makes grid almost useless in ac15.

Obviously you think this is fine.. but I would prefer if you can consult with some of the other admins or developers regarding this. I dont see why someone would mess up something that worked perfectly in all previous versions and make a fundamental tool in architecture unreliable.

Re: Grid does not work properly in AC15

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:15:54 GMT

I also checked out the Archicad grid tool description from help menu.

Grid Snap Function
The Grid Snap function allows precise graphic alignment of elements at consistent lengths and distances. When the Grid Snap function is active, you can only draw from one grid intersection to another; the grid “pulls” the cursor and makes it snap to the grid nodes. This allows you to position the cursor accurately, even at low zoom levels.

So according to the description the problem of not being able to snap at grids is an error. It is not intentional.