topic Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass in Modeling

BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Tue, 23 May 2023 13:31:34 GMT

I am attempting to completely model a house, I want to stay away from exploding and drawing in 2D, because I'm fed up with BIM not living upto expectations. I had an issue this weekend which made me realise that BIM still has a long way to come, unless I'm missing A LOT. sure, it's great that you can show someone in a sales pitch how quickly you can draw four walls, a hip roof, throw a window and door in there and render it.. WOW, I'm sold (but I'm not so much anymore) There are so many details that seem to be such an arduous task to complete but yet would be considered essential to what a true BIM model should be. I am by no means an expert in ArchiCAd, so I'm hoping to be won back with your replies to this post.

In my ranting state I'm sure that much of what I've said doesnt make sense, so let me put an example to it. I put a window in a wall, a very simple single hung casement window out of the andersen window library, and I want to put a brick row-lock under the window.. how do you do it? sure I could draw a little piece of wall there and make it look like a row-lock, but in my opinion that's not the point of BIM, the row-lock is part of the wall, thus it should be modeled as such. I get so sick of work-arounds, and "well this LOOKS right", and I'm sure theres accesories and add-ons I could BUY to do this, but in my opinion that's a bunch of bull5hit I should NOT have to pay thousands of dollars for an architectural modeling programme, and then run out and pay another 5000 dollars for 12 different add-ons to be able to make proper stairs, decent windows, wall cladding, doors, skylights, landscaping.. ArchiCAd should bloody well do these things out of the box, I know this has been said so many times, and it's so frustrating to me to see that nothing is being done about the problem wether in ArchiCAd Revit, whatever.. I know that I'll end up staying with ArchiCAD, but AC10 better damn well be a stunning piece of software.. or I'm just gonna lose it.

Maybe I'm way off base and theres a bunch of simplet things that I'm over looking that are causing me to have problems like this, but It just seems to be so incredibly ineffecient to completely model a house, when BIM is supposed to make everything so much more efficient, theres times when I hoenstly feel like I could hand draught a house faster than someone coulde model it in a BIM programme. (I'd also like everyone to know that ,with the exceptions of the add-on rant, I think all the BIM programmes out there are equally lacking in this area of modelling, not just AC)

someone help me.....
convince me that BIM isn't a clusterfsck of endless work-arounds and addons, to make things "look" correct, rather than be correct.. which is the entire point of BIM...

cheers,
Daniel

PS. It's monday and I haven't had a fag today, sorry if that all came out a little harsh.

PSS... apparently f.ag is censored.. I haven't had a cigarette today.

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

TomWaltz — Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:13:51 GMT

The brick object that comes in the Archicad library is not what you wanted?

Why would you spend $5000 on addons? What in the world did you buy?

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:20:48 GMT

I haven't bought any add-ons, I was saying that there senough out there that you could. and darn you tom for ansering my questiong in 2 minutes, when I've been losing my mind for three days, and it took me 6 minutes to type the question.

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:28:49 GMT

and unfortunately no that doesn't work due to the fact that for some reason, unless it's another thing I'm overlooking Archicad doesnt allow you to pivot something on a horizontal pivot line, and the row-lock needs to slope down, away fromt he window...

cheers,
dan

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:29:36 GMT

Daniel wrote:
I haven't bought any add-ons, I was saying that there senough out there that you could. and darn you tom for ansering my questiong in 2 minutes, when I've been losing my mind for three days, and it took me 6 minutes to type the question.

Daniel,
You can also use the windows from the special addition SE9 library. They have parameters for brick headers and sills

Dan K

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:35:54 GMT

I've been afraid to try the SE library for fear f crashes, etc, but I'll give it a go.

cheers,
dan

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:39:10 GMT

Just short reply to the main part of your post:

Daniel wrote:
...I should NOT have to pay thousands of dollars for an architectural modeling programme, and then run out and pay another 5000 dollars for 12 different add-ons to be able to make proper stairs, decent windows, wall cladding, doors, skylights, landscaping.. ArchiCAd should bloody well do these things out of the box...

Agree (except of prices )!

GS plays around main concept of AC - BIM. Ok, thank's for that GS! But, please hear us, architects. At first we need many other small tools, comfortable Interface, etc.; independent from project type (just look in wish list).

ps.: very often add-ons also don't help!

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

TomWaltz — Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:54:57 GMT

You should see what I do to the people in-house 😉

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

TomWaltz — Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:58:15 GMT

Z.Bauer wrote:
ps.: very often add-ons also don't help!

That's a BIG point. Some add-ons sound really good until you get them and actually try to use them.

Most add-ons are made to address a pretty specific need, and if your need is a LITTLE off, it may not work.

The more add-ons I buy the more jaded I get. There are only a few that I have bought, run through the ringer, and still would recommend a year later.

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Feb 2006 20:33:38 GMT

I've just downloaded and installed the SE9 library, and the winows in this library, although I will agree are better, still do not have a brick row-lock option, they do have a built in masonry arch option, but I need a row lock, at the bottom of the window. Am I overlooking something, or am I hunting for something that isn't there.

cheers,
dan

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Feb 2006 21:45:56 GMT

Where can i get the SE 9 Library?

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Aaron Bourgoin — Mon, 06 Feb 2006 22:13:18 GMT

tr.graphisoftus.com

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Feb 2006 22:22:31 GMT

Daniel,
For the problem of the row-lock, you could use a roof or roofs
to make the row-lock and subtract with SEO from the sill of
the wall opening.

I've been thinking about your statements about BIM and AC
and have a few thoughts.

When you say, "the row-lock is part of the wall,
thus it should be modeled as such", several things occur to me.

No program is psychic and therefor it has to be told what to do.
In this context then, the program would need to know brick detailing
and have a control to enable those details. Maybe your right, but
AC does not have this, so far, so you need a work-around.

I don't think that any program can have all things for all people
so a good program has to use a different approach.
AC uses the approach of allowing the user to use work-arounds.
Work-arounds aren't bad but are part of allowing the user to
have as much freedom and power as possible.

I agree with Z.Bauer and Tom Waltz that add-ons often don't work
for what you think they are intended to do and, as you point out,
they can be expensive. Therefor, it's back to Archicad and finding
ways to get what you want within the the program.

This leads to something I have always thought and makes me really
appreciate Archicad and that is Archicad has GDL .
With GDL one can get around all sorts of shortcomings in the program.
In the context of the row-lock, since AC does not have brick details
stored in it and you need to model brick details, make your own
with GDL.

Some say, I am a designer not a programer I should not have to
learn GDL. My answer is, no program is perfect, no program has
all things for all people all the time, so a program that gives you
the power to make what you need yourself is a superior program.

This, essentially, is my answer to your statement,
"someone help me.....
convince me that BIM isn't a clusterfsck of endless work-arounds and addons, to make things "look" correct, rather than be correct.. which is the entire point of BIM... "

I think that GDL is an important part of Archicad and people who want
to get the most out of AC should use it.

Thank you,
Peter Devlin

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Feb 2006 00:57:35 GMT

Peter,

I appreciate your response (and everyone's for that matter) I don't know if it's the fact that I'm home now, away from the stresses of the office, or if I've just had time to cool down, but I'm starting to see what you mean about work-arounds. For whatever reason, I've never really taken to learning GDL which is od because I'm a fairly good programmer when it comes to C++, perl, VB, and java... so GDL should really be something that I use on a regular basis.. I think I'll take some time this week to learn the finer points of GDL, and I'm hoping that it will allow me to see the brighter side of BIM.

once again I'd just like to say that I appreciate all the feedback, and enlightenment.

cheers,
Daniel

PS: where should I look to, to find a decent GDL guide? (other than PMing Peter / Zohrab / Tom / Fmr / etc, every 20 minutes)?

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Feb 2006 01:03:25 GMT

Daniel wrote:
PS: where should I look to, to find a decent GDL guide? (other than PMing Peter / Zohrab / Tom / Fmr / etc, every 20 minutes)?

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=9439

irony? conincidence? luck?

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Feb 2006 01:35:11 GMT

Daniel,
Thanks for the kind response.
The GDL Cookbook by David Nicholson-Cole
is by far the best help in learning
GDL because the manual is a bit terse.
That the book is out of print is terrible.
I bought The GDL Cookbook 3 and have the CD that accompanies
the hard copy. I would like to send you the CD but of course I can't
for obvious and respectable reasons.
I wonder if you could ask David Nicholson-Cole (a forum member) if
there is any way you could get the CD either from him or some
other source and get him properly compensated.
Peter Devlin

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Feb 2006 03:14:40 GMT

Peter,

I'll take your advice, and send David a PM regarding a CD request. Thanks for the information.

cheers,
Daniel

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Feb 2006 03:20:12 GMT

Daniel,
Check out this thread. Maybe Dwight has another copy.
http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=9439
Peter Devlin

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Feb 2006 03:26:56 GMT

I'm going to contact David Pacifico tomorrow morning and see if he has a copy laying around somewhere that I could purchase or possibly borrow from him, if that doesnt pan out then I'll get in touch with Dwight. Thanks again

cheers,
Daniel Streby

Re: BIM details.. what a pain in the ass

Anonymous — Tue, 07 Feb 2006 04:44:38 GMT

Daniel,
Just on a lark I typed in "gdl cookbook" on google
and found that the yahoo store sells both "The GDL Cookbook II"
and "The GDL Cookbook III" .
Check out this URL
http://www.architecturalcadd.com/books4.html
Peter Devlin