topic Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Ashamed? in Modeling

Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Ashamed?

Chazz — Fri, 26 May 2023 12:51:26 GMT

For an old-schooler like me, it somehow just feels impure, tainted and unclean to annotate in the layout environment. This is undoubtedly leftover baggage from the bad old days of my childhood with PlotMaker, where I trained users to only lay up and plot in the layouts --nothing more.

However, lately I've been doing more live 3D assembly views and it would be nice to keep them live and be able to annotate them. Since annotation is currently not possible in the 3D window, doing it in the layout environment is the next best option.

Is anyone else here willing to confess the sin of annotating in the layout window? If so; Why did you do it and do you feel sullied or liberated? Speak up, we're here to support you.

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:56:54 GMT

I share your reservations, but it's the only way to go with 3D details for now. My rule is always do what works if it won't cause too many problems later. BTW: Nice drawing. Is all that detail in in the model?

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Chazz — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:37:45 GMT

Matthew wrote:
My rule is always do what works if it won't cause too many problems later.

Amen. Nice to have a prominent user out himself here and join me in solidarity. Together we will remove the stigma and through our stance, encourage others to come forward and annotate any way they darn well want.

Matthew wrote:
Is all that detail in the model?

Yeah, I'm not a very good drafter so I model everything. My current gig for a global retailer requires something other than traditional CD's (of which I'm all to familiar). We publish things that are more like style guides. They need to point the way without being too technical and can be understood at a glance. Because the conventions are so different globally we don't get too specific. The ultimate goal is to remove english, which, if you've ever looked at Ikea instructions, you know is really hard.

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Thomas Holm — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:27:50 GMT

Chazz wrote:
The ultimate goal is to remove english, which, if you've ever looked at Ikea instructions, you know is really hard.

I know. Despite I even know Swedish.

I'm with you all the way, Chazz!

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:28:46 GMT

Chazz wrote:
Since annotation is currently not possible in the 3D window, doing it in the layout environment is the next best option.

Hi Chazz,

What do you say about saving your 3D view as 2d lines and then importing it in floor plan, in order to add annotations?

Cheers.

Adrian Tudoreanu

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Chazz — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:18:23 GMT

adytc wrote:
What do you say about saving your 3D view as 2d lines and then importing it in floor plan, in order to add annotations?

What I say is that it's a strictly one-way ticket to pain and humiliation (and yes, I do it all the time). The problem, of course, is that when the model is revised, the whole process needs to be repeated and that is sort of antithetical to the gospel of BIM and virtual building that I preach. I am a hopeless link maintainer and file dynamicist.

However, when the 3D window is saved as a view and placed as a drawing in a layout, it stays live. All you have to do is get over your natural aversion to annotating in the layout evironmaent which, with Matthew's help, I'm seeing my way twords doing.

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Chazz — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:20:34 GMT

Thomas wrote:
I know. Despite I even know Swedish.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30546

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Thomas Holm — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:16:55 GMT

Chazz wrote:
Thomas wrote:
I know. Despite I even know Swedish.
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30546

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 04:29:30 GMT

After seeing what you have created in that detail I will also start annotating 3D in Layouts. Just tell me, are the studs & runners objects or slab/wall... creation. If Objects, where can I buy them from.
Thanks,
Joseph

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Chazz — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:46:04 GMT

Joseph wrote:
Are the studs & runners objects or slab/wall... creation. If Objects, where can I buy them from?

The studs and joists are profiles (with SEO's applied to the joist for the holes) and the rest is custom library junk or stuff out of the standard library.

BTW the articulating top and bottom plates are based on the system supplied by Flex-Ability Concepts --maybe the dumbest company name ever.

I wish someone would make a nice, super-parametric steel framing collection but I have not seen one.

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Anonymous — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 18:34:01 GMT

Chazz wrote:
The studs and joists are profiles (with SEO's applied to the joist for the holes).....

Wow so many holes very time & speed consuming.

Chazz wrote:
I wish someone would make a nice, super-parametric steel framing collection but I have not seen one.

That be the day I say goodbye to ..........

Thanks,
Joseph

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Haneef Tayob — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:14:31 GMT

I often annotate portions of 1:100 plans on the layout. I however restrict these to just circling certain rooms on the layout with references to other 1:20 detail room layouts.

These could be done on the actual drawing, but there's often too many layersets to keep control of.

BTW annotating the 3-d on the layout makes a lot of sense - thanks

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Chazz — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:43:50 GMT

Joseph wrote:
Wow so many holes very time & speed consuming.

If you were just doing one, yes. But I'm doing scads of them and have everything organized in my workspace. I spank 'em out quick quick quick.

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:55:13 GMT

Chazz wrote:
Joseph wrote:
Wow so many holes very time & speed consuming.
If you were just doing one, yes. But I'm doing scads of them and have everything organized in my workspace. I spank 'em out quick quick quick.

Could you explain in a plane language the process?
Thanks,
Joseph

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Erich — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 05:00:15 GMT

OK, so here is the stupid newbie question for the day:

What are the reasons to NOT annotate on the layout?

Coming from the AutoCAD world, my automatic preference is to annotate on my sheets and leave my "base" drawing free of notes. This allows my notes to move without accidentally moving drawing elements and also makes it easy to keep notes from interacting with other elements that might also be present on a sheet such as schedules, key plans, details, etc.

Now that I am switching the ArchiCAD I am trying to figure out what is the best practice and try to avoid developing too many bad habits along the way. I understand why, with Plot Maker, you would not want to do this. I can also understand why with a 3D detail you would want to annotate on the layout. What about a simple plan layout? As of now I am using simple "dumb" keynotes so extracting information from model parts is not part of the current equation. Am I missing something vital here? I hope to stand on the shoulders of those who came before me.

Thanks

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Chazz — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:49:53 GMT

Erich wrote:
OK, so here is the stupid newbie question for the day: What are the reasons to NOT annotate on the layout?

No stupid questions. Sounds like you're off to a good start in AC and understand the power of maintaining best management practices.

Because many annotations can be associative (labels, markers, etc) you would never want to place these in the layouts. The other issue is that by annotating in layouts you need to revise in 2 places every time there is a change. If you move a wall, you would need to switch to the layout window to make sure the change didn't cover up a note or leader there. Also, depending on how you have the drawings set up in the layout they may move geographically when revisions are made, thus altering the registration of your annotations (ie leaders no longer pointing to the elements they're supposed to). There are probably more reasons that it's bad practice but those are the biggies for moi.

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Erich — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:14:55 GMT

Chazz,

Thanks for the response. That makes perfect sense. It I had thought about it a bit more I may have seen this. Of course in AutoCAD everything is "dumb" and if something moves in one location you must always track it down in other places and correct it whether it is a note or a drawn element. I guess my mentality has not completely switched to the new way of thinking.

Also, with AC 11 you can set the layout as your trace reference and thereby avoid conflicts with any other information you might have on the sheet. A cute trick courtesy of Eric Bobrow.

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Chazz — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:38:25 GMT

Another thought on the problems of annotating in the layout ......

If you are developing details for use in future projects, you can save the view (say, a 3Dish connection detail) but none of the annotation you applied in the layout environment will show up when you place that view in a new project layout. So, annotating in layouts makes your work less portable.

Re: Annotation in Layouts: Is it Wrong? Do You? Are You Asha

Chazz — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:40:14 GMT

Erich wrote:
you can set the layout as your trace reference and thereby avoid conflicts

Nice!