topic ARCHICAD functionality in Modeling

ARCHICAD functionality

Brett Brown — Wed, 24 May 2023 06:08:25 GMT

Moderator comment:
This discussion was started in another thread, but then changed into the discussion of various ARCHICAD
functionalities, so the topic was split into its own discussion.

Christophe wrote:
Archicad is also the best and has always been!

Might have been 10 years ago but now it is far from it.
It is embarrassing the basic functions missing in Archicad that all the others have, Vectorworks, Revit, Archline XP, Cheif Architect.
The main downfall of Archicad is that it is the only Software that hasn't a central UI that you open all your projects in. This costs all users of Archicad hours a week in maintenance which the others don't have.
And as said all the basic usability functions which are to many to list which we all miss daily.
In the last few years all Graphisoft has been doing is updating (or making the tools more complicated to use) existing tools (Stairs,Curtain Wall, Beam, Column) which has been only beneficial to some, and this will be happening for a few more years to come. I bet there is a new Door and Window tool next.

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

rob2218 — Fri, 24 Jan 2020 16:58:45 GMT

Brett wrote:

Christophe wrote:
Archicad is also the best and has always been!
Might have been 10 years ago but now it is far from it.
It is embarrassing the basic functions missing in Archicad that all the others have, Vectorworks, Revit, Archline XP, Cheif Architect.
The main downfall of Archicad is that it is the only Software that hasn't a central UI that you open all your projects in. This costs all users of Archicad hours a week in maintenance which the others don't have.
And as said all the basic usability functions which are to many to list which we all miss daily.
In the last few years all Graphisoft has been doing is updating (or making the tools more complicated to use) existing tools (Stairs,Curtain Wall, Beam, Column) which has been only beneficial to some, and this will be happening for a few more years to come. I bet there is a new Door and Window tool next.

please elaborate on this statement "The main downfall of Archicad is that it is the only Software that hasn't a central UI that you open all your projects in".

Await your explanation. And please....write like I'm a 5-year old. Big words with lots of syllables give me a headache.

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Christophe Fortineau — Mon, 27 Jan 2020 10:26:09 GMT

Brett wrote:
The main downfall of Archicad is ...

Wishing to use one tool in the same way as another seems to me to be an inappropriate postulate.

Brett wrote:
This costs all users of Archicad hours a week in maintenance which the others don't have.

I'm an Archicad user and I do not spend maintenance hour per week. I don't even spend a minute on this.
Why and how do you need maintenance ? Wouldn't it rather be a question of using the Archicad tool ?

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Brett Brown — Mon, 27 Jan 2020 21:23:24 GMT

Christophe wrote:
Why and how do you need maintenance ? Wouldn't it rather be a question of using the Archicad tool ?

So you have a magical way of getting newly created Favourites, Graphic Overrides, Attributes, etc in one project and updating all your other active projects (usually 5+ and template) with those, using zero time? Perhaps the Magic Wand?

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Christophe Fortineau — Tue, 28 Jan 2020 06:28:30 GMT

Hello Brett Brown,

What you describe is interesting and maybe GS is considering getting closer to such an organization but it does not seem essential according to my use of Archicad. It is true that it is good to ask questions about your model file and to integrate new resources (tpl file) but the simple pus remains to provide your old tpl file AC21 or AC22 with the latest version of Archicad and add useful resources to it (2min per years). Indeed all the resources developed in a project are not necessarily useful in the TPL project. You have two options, either you have only one TPL file which will be very large and complex to use, or you develop several TPL files according to your uses. In conclusion, it is also an opportunity to take stock of its design methods and tools.

Beautiful day,

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Brett Brown — Tue, 28 Jan 2020 07:13:06 GMT

Christophe wrote:
Hello Brett Brown,

What you describe is interesting and maybe GS is considering getting closer to such an organization but it does not seem essential according to my use of Archicad. It is true that it is good to ask questions about your model file and to integrate new resources (tpl file) but the simple pus remains to provide your old tpl file AC21 or AC22 with the latest version of Archicad and add useful resources to it (2min per years). Indeed all the resources developed in a project are not necessarily useful in the TPL project. You have two options, either you have only one TPL file which will be very large and complex to use, or you develop several TPL files according to your uses. In conclusion, it is also an opportunity to take stock of its design methods and tools.

Beautiful day,

Hi Christophe,
Sorry but you have missed the point completely, It's all about the day to day use of the software, must be lost in the translation or just avoiding the subject.

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Christophe Fortineau — Tue, 28 Jan 2020 08:05:32 GMT

Hi,

Day after day I use the appropriate TPL file according to my project. So I take advantage of all my favorite settings. If I have created a resource in another file, I need no more than 1 minute to transfer thousands of parameters to my master TPL file. But beware it is me and me alone who decides what I put in my TPL file. Not all of the resources in all of my files are uninteresting. Nothing very complicated in short.

Transfers between files can certainly be improved but with a correct working method there is very little "lost time".

Have a great day,

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Richard Morrison — Wed, 04 Mar 2020 20:50:36 GMT

Brett wrote:
So you have a magical way of getting newly created Favourites, Graphic Overrides, Attributes, etc in one project and updating all your other active projects (usually 5+ and template) with those, using zero time? Perhaps the Magic Wand?

With the ability to import/export all of these as XML files, plus the Attribute Manager, I would have a hard time making it take more than 5 minutes per project. So, maybe not ZERO time, but not very far off.

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Brett Brown — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 02:10:13 GMT

Couldn't disagree more Richard, the point being the antiquated way Archicad is set up, every plan is a separate entity. Great if you are doing one plan at a time but for me having 10 projects at all different stages going at the same time, it's a continual time waster.
I always have the template open and alter or add to it when I need to, on the go. Then you have to update all the other ongoing projects from your Template.
Just a painfully disadvantage of using Archicad compared to equivalent Cad Software.
A lucrative opportunity for an API maker to relieve us all of this pain.

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Bricklyne Clarence — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 15:17:17 GMT

Brett wrote:
Couldn't disagree more Richard, the point being the antiquated way Archicad is set up, every plan is a separate entity. Great if you are doing one plan at a time but for me having 10 projects at all different stages going at the same time, it's a continual time waster.
I always have the template open and alter or add to it when I need to, on the go. Then you have to update all the other ongoing projects from your Template.
Just a painfully disadvantage of using Archicad compared to equivalent Cad Software.
A lucrative opportunity for an API maker to relieve us all of this pain.

I would have to argue that most people don't really work like this, and you have to concede it wouldn't be efficient, logical or even workable for Graphisoft to tailor a workflow that's suited specifically just to you (or perhaps to a handful or maybe some more rather than to the larger majority)..
But then again I might be misunderstanding what you mean.

When you say "plan" are you in fact referring to distinct "floor plans" within the project or within a single project, or were you in fact meaning ( as I understood your comment anyway) to actual "projects" (And conflating "plan" to mean a project file)?

In my personal experience it's extremely rare to have or to have seen or observed anyone with more than 3 or 4 projects open at the same time, let alone 10.
Perhaps the types of projects I work on are way too big to ever contemplate having that many open at a time and not expect my computer to get bogged and dragged down to its knees.

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Anonymous — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 15:30:23 GMT

@Bricklyne Clarence

I think Brett Brown is talking about common/shared Attributes/Office_Standards between multiple projects. For example: You create a new GO/Detail/Property/etc to a common set of plans in one project, and have to replicate it manually to every other ones.

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Christophe Fortineau — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 16:43:02 GMT

Hello Brett Brown,

I share the feeling of Bricklyne Clarence : the intentions of Brett Brown seem contrary to Archicad's working methods. No software can or should claim any functionality from other software. Therefore it is important at first to understand how to proceed with Archicad rather than wanting to find an exotic functionality. For more than 10 years I have never met Archicad users who need more than 3 files open at the same time. As for the attributes, they are all embedded in the TPL file which can be improved as you go.

I nevertheless think that graphisoft's progress in transferring attributes from files to files could be better: just like in Archicad 23 with its "home page" which allows you to synthesize the state of the file.

And maybe in a few weeks we will see that the subject is already solved with Archicad 24 !

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Bricklyne Clarence — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 20:00:57 GMT

Braza wrote:
@Bricklyne Clarence

I think Brett Brown is talking about common/shared Attributes/Office_Standards between multiple projects. For example: You create a new GO/Detail/Property/etc to a common set of plans in one project, and have to replicate it manually to every other ones.

That's more or less what I understood him to be saying.
I think the confusion (for me) was from the conflation of saying "plans" when "projects" was what was actually meant, and essentially using them interchangeably.

"Plans" (as in Floor plans) are part of a Project, as far as I'm aware.
Although I get that once upon a time, the term "plans" was a catch-all term used to refer to any architectural document or drawing (even sections and elevations) and thus, also more generally refer to a project, overall.

Just like nowadays some people may (still) use "Blueprints" to mean anything Architecture drawing (or even CAD-) related, when, once againm, it's a very specific term that referred to a specific type of drawing (copy) of a hand-drafted drawing.

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Bricklyne Clarence — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 20:06:02 GMT

Christophe wrote:
Hello Brett Brown,

I share the feeling of Bricklyne Clarence : the intentions of Brett Brown seem contrary to Archicad's working methods. No software can or should claim any functionality from other software. Therefore it is important at first to understand how to proceed with Archicad rather than wanting to find an exotic functionality. For more than 10 years I have never met Archicad users who need more than 3 files open at the same time. As for the attributes, they are all embedded in the TPL file which can be improved as you go.

I nevertheless think that graphisoft's progress in transferring attributes from files to files could be better: just like in Archicad 23 with its "home page" which allows you to synthesize the state of the file.

And maybe in a few weeks we will see that the subject is already solved with Archicad 24 !

A "few weeks"???

Why are so many people so optimistic that we'll be seeing ArchiCAD 24 any time before the middle of the summer (which is when new releases typically get released) or even much later than that (given our most recent experience with a new release)?

And on that point, I'm not even sure how confident we really should be in a new version if it does in fact arrive on time this year, considering the fact that we're barely one Hotfix in (pre-release version) with the current version when we all know it normally takes a number of those before a version is actually considered stable enough and truly production-ready.

I hope you're right.
(.....but with lots of reservations, obviously.)

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Brett Brown — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 20:20:36 GMT

Braza wrote:
@Bricklyne Clarence

I think Brett Brown is talking about common/shared Attributes/Office_Standards between multiple projects. For example: You create a new GO/Detail/Property/etc to a common set of plans in one project, and have to replicate it manually to every other ones.

Absolutely correct Braza, Sorry Bricklyne you misunderstood the problem. Vectorworks has the Resource Manager, Archline XP has the Design Centre, Revit to a certain extent, these are far more organized internally than Archicad will ever be. Or we can only wish Christophe for 24. My guess is 24 will be all about the new replacement Windows and Doors tool. Which will mean nothing to us that have used Cadimages one for years.

The overwelling feeling I have is Archicad has moved right away from supplying tools for the single-family residential home and the thinking that most of us have more than one project underway at the same time. You just have to look at the toolset of Revit and the way it works (OP question), for example, "pining" "Temporary dimensions" just to new a few of many many more. Autodesk has a totally different way of thinking where they know what we want. That's probably because they ask us what we want.
Christophe, "contrary to Archicads working methods" you mean antiquated working methods, and as you finally said, transferring attributes is painful and as it will never have a centralized "Resource Manager" we will have to hope an API maker will pick up the slack to improve Archicads usability. Now wheres the Keynote Manager? Oh, that's in Revit.

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Barry Kelly — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 03:19:29 GMT

Common shared attributes will cause another issue.
What happens when you update an attribute but you don't want it in ALL of your projects?
Some you may want to share and others you may not.
We have that choice now with the Attribute Manager.

You may have 10 projects on the go at the same time, but adding a new layer combination or GO to one file, does not mean you have to add it to all of your files (unless you are hotlinking all the files together - then it is important to have the same attributes).
Update the project you are working on and transfer those attributes to your template so future projects are good.
If you really need it in other projects you can import the attributes there too.
But if it was important for all of your projects, then surely you would have had it in your template already?

I work for a project home builder and we have 100's if not 1000's of standard plans and 1000's of projects produced each year.
All are based from the same template which is kept up to date with any new attributes.
If we need them in existing projects we can import them in from the template.
We even save individual attribute files for a new layer combination or new complex profiles, etc., just so we can import those directly rather than searching for new attributes in the template or overwriting all attributes.

Barry.

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Erwin Edel — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 07:35:15 GMT

Maybe I'm too stuck in my ways, but there is very little changing with my template from version to version, just small things that get added. It helps that our local version 'keymember' edition ships with a fairly good template that follows the national standards and only needs small tweaks.

I do generally keep projects as they are. If there is too much hassle to upgrade them to the new version, we just finish them in the old version. I still have two projects running archicad20. AC20 is rock solid thouh, so I see no reason to worry there.

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 10:34:15 GMT

Barry Kelly wrote:
Common shared attributes will cause another issue.
What happens when you update an attribute but you don't want it in ALL of your projects?

Then you "pack" things that are specific to a pln in a separate attribute file automatically linked to that pln.
The same with things that are common to all files (like office standards) in a single attribute file linked to the template file.

We know that this can be done manually. But every time I have to do this I feel I am walking on a mine field.
Things can get messy with index numbers between mod files.

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Erwin Edel — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 10:47:40 GMT

We 'reserve' index numbers by having dummy attributes at hundred marks (200, 300, etc). We also use a naming protocol where we add our project number to the start of project specific attributes. This makes it easier to work with multiple files in one project.
Template: 1-200
Project shared: 201-300
Block A: 301-400
Block B: 401-500
etc etc

If something needs to change 'banks', then you can use 'delete and replace' to switch it from block to project and so on.

Changing template attributes is frowned upon. Always duplicate and give a new name starting with project number.

Sometimes we also add the design phase to the name if that will lead to many changes and again just slap them in a new index 'range'.

Good work discipline doesn't take much effort and saves a lot of time and headaches.

Re: ARCHICAD functionality

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 10:56:28 GMT

Erwin wrote:
This makes it easier to work with multiple files in one project.

Exactly! Making it easier doesn't mean it is perfect, right?
I know all these workarounds. But again: Its too much "discipline" for a task that should be automatic!
I don't want to do a "Japanese Tea Ceremony" just to add a new layer/linetype/property on a project that I may or may not share attributes in the future.