topic Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD in Modeling

The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

Richard Morrison — Mon, 11 May 2020 17:08:06 GMT

On another post, I noted how complicated ArchiCAD had become. I got curious and went back to AC12. Its Reference Guide (for the U.S.) was 541 pages. The Reference Guide for AC23 is now 3,744 pages! (Almost 7X the size of AC12's.) While I have my own opinions about this, I'm just noting this here for others who also may be getting weary of feature bloat. It's a real thing and far larger than I might have imagined.

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

Emre Senoglu — Mon, 11 May 2020 20:31:21 GMT

It's a very valid point to make Richard. I actually think it's okay to inflate and build tool over tool, or well, was okay. What Graphisoft forgot in the meanwhile is to streamline and optimize. With the past 3-4 updates, every tool has become its own little universe. Morph tool functions entirely different to any other tool and has its own set of highly unique design/edit parameters. Some of which would be very welcome in other tools. Curtain Wall tool started a trend to a more complex tool scheme, but it just got confusing with the new version of Stair tool. Railing tool added a new graphical interface ever existent editor to the mix, and in my opinion helped simplify things a good bit. But then, the same interface didn't transfer to the stair nor the curtain wall tool. To add on top of that, the new column tool looks like it belongs to the same family, when in fact it is actually a strange mix between the old and the new, ending up as a step backwards.

I think (and really hope that 24 is all about this) that adding new tools is great, but what AC needs right now is streamlining. Polishing up old tools to fit the new advances made to other tools, bringing everything up to a consistent level of interaction, making sure there are no tools left behind or made involuntarily redundant despite being in the software. Not just "oh we optimized here and there" but a reworking and strengthening of what there already is.

Edit: Also, why is there a dedicated Corner Window tool? Or a Wall End tool? This always has bothered me that there's somehow unequal distribution of strengths. It just feels half baked. I get that these are necessary functions, but couldn't they be combined with something that makes more sense?

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

rjwilden — Mon, 11 May 2020 20:34:25 GMT

I agree. At present I am teaching my daughter, a second year architectural student how to use archicad. Functions that that should be simple have many levels of complexity, layer on layer of settings to wade through, and so many options that ultimately affect or hinder the end result. I have adapted over time, but new users are overwhelmed by the complexity. Even after using the software for 22 years I am regularly tripped up, and struggle to find settings and functions. Having to verbally explain a function is nearly impossible, have to do it on screen. To be fair sometime my brain doesn’t know what my hands are doing and the command selection is automatic. Anything outside my template becomes a very laborious process to sort out. Function that are not often used are quickly forgottten. Does the programme need a completed Rewright from the ground up.

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

DGSketcher — Mon, 11 May 2020 21:52:49 GMT

I have been saying this for a while now, but I'm not sure if the message is getting through to GS. There comes a point when the learning curve is so steep people stop wanting to use the software. AC hasn't evolved, it has become bloated and overly complex. To evolve means removing redundancies to maintain an efficient system, this hasn't happened for a long time and the Wishlist of improvements just keeps growing. AC is a solid product BUT the coding / UI needs consolidating and the workflow simplifying. Seventeen years ago a request was made for an in-place editable module/block/instance, yet we are still waiting and left with a hot linking system that is of little value on smaller projects as the attribute management is a nightmare. Storey settings come with several variations which removes intuitive selection. For me the publishing process feels like a series of disconnected dialog boxes without a logical workflow or central focus. I could go on, but what I would like to see, rather than just headline grabbing features, is GS set about sorting the legacy bugs and wishes with frequent updates to show that they are actively addressing their customer needs to make AC more user friendly and efficient. At the end of the day we just want to communicate with the client, consultants and builder to get the job done, not spend half the hard earned fees looking for elusive or pointless settings and workarounds for inconsistent tools.

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

Lingwisyer — Wed, 13 May 2020 01:17:58 GMT

Ditching the annual release would probably help with the streamlining progress, as then there would be less pressure to develop some new fandangled feature in a rush to sell the next version.

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

runxel — Wed, 13 May 2020 11:29:20 GMT

Lingwisyer wrote:
Ditching the annual release would probably help with the streamlining progress, as then there would be less pressure to develop some new fandangled feature in a rush to sell the next version.

Those dumb annual releases really ruined the AEC industry IT-wise.

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

jl_lt — Wed, 13 May 2020 15:12:01 GMT

I agree with everyone here. Some time ago i read that true advances in technology occur when integration happens, not complication. So, instead of making tools more complex, there should actually be dissapearance of tools, as in, that they automatically work in the background. Many areas of opportunity here: Annotation, ID handling, pen sets (i actually like them, but one should not be worrying about them in 2020), detail generation, locking of objets, zones, zone names, zones names in section, level handling, slabs, relationship of object to levels, labeling, specifications, layers, lineweights, module linking, object creation, layout creation, terrain creation, template creation... the list goes on. i want to have the same blissful feeling on these aforementioned concepts as the feeling i have when i press the "publish" button.

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

Jacques Toerien — Sat, 16 May 2020 10:06:41 GMT

For kicks, while trying to help my friend get AC10 going (stall can't find an install disc for OS X!), I got him to boot up an old OS 9 drive in a powermac G4 with ArchiCAD 7 on. What a joy! Everything is so fast and responsive and the whole installed application size is around 450mb, that includes the library.

Lots of software these days suffers from bloat, I recently ditched Adobe and switched to Affinity for my image editing and document layout work, a fresh breeze as they're not carrying years of bloatware, add-on software, bridge this, cloud that....

Don't get me started on subscriptions....!

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

Thomas Holm — Mon, 18 May 2020 12:04:22 GMT

Hi Richard,
I agree, but there's another factor here too: It's too easy to distribute PDFs compared to printed books! Nobody bothers to edit the manuals anymore.

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

DGSketcher — Mon, 18 May 2020 17:24:44 GMT

Thomas wrote:
Hi Richard,
I agree, but there's another factor here too: It's too easy to distribute PDFs compared to printed books! Nobody bothers to edit the manuals anymore.

Don't think many read them anymore either. We came up with RTFM for a reason!

Of course, another view is that if you can use anything without a manual it must have been well designed...

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

Ahmed_K — Mon, 18 May 2020 19:37:12 GMT

you won't read an entire manual to use a software, i always check the manual, but i only search for what i need, simple and fast

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

jl_lt — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 03:46:00 GMT

It would be interesting to know from longtime users if this increased complexity has allowed to do things that could not be done before or at least if some processes have improved; or if all this complexity is just bloating while leaving some basics unattended. At least materials priorities, graphic overrides and publisher seem like a big step from what i hear from those times.

A great example that comes to mind is a software called Evernote. At first it was a marvel of functionality and ease of use and it did exactly what it promised and then some, but over time they added so many useless features while breaking the core functionality that it became an absolute mess. It was sad to see as they just wanted to do too much. I unistalled that app a long time ago so i dont know if it has gotten any better but i doubt it. The point is, could this be happening to Archicad? in trying to keep up with the joneses (aka Revit, which somehow tries to bite even more than Archicad) could Archicad find themselves walking on thin ice?

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

DGSketcher — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 08:36:19 GMT

From my perspective as a longtime user I can say a lot of the complexity has seen amazing steps forward, beams & curtain walls being the immediate obvious examples, stairs & rails, hmmm, the jury is still out on that one. At the core, AC has some very talented programmers handling very difficult geometry & data management issues very competently. Given the amount of abuse the tools get and the complexity of some designs we should really be grateful there are so few show stopper crashes.

There is an element of bloating, but I believe the problems lie primarily in the user interface and workflow. AC is very flexible, or putting it another way it has workarounds and options, unfortunately this is also it's weakness. The workarounds get around difficulties that in some cases should probably not occur, but the options just leave a feeling that there isn't a structured or simplified workflow to some common processes. The Shadows thread is a good example where you realise that the simple act of taking a section can require multiple adjustments in each one to match others. Yes, there are transfer settings and favourites, but again this isn't always reliable or consistent unless you dig down into some more obscure settings. Those section settings should be simplified to a single common preset for all relevant views that would maintain consistency and speed up production.

Another example is Publishing which feels like the final goal requires jumping between several dialogs to sort, check, tag and update layouts before being able to decide which of several "Close Issue" buttons to use, (I know of at least four) before thinking about hitting publish. The point about buttons is very relevant to the complexity issue, we need to get from A to B as quickly as possible, yet the interface seems to offer Scenic, Eco & Shortest routes, to use a SatNav analogy, scattered throughout the interface when we only need a single Quickest route to complete the task. Efficient workflow relies on repetitive processes, too many choices leaves users uncertain as to the best route to take to achieve their goal.

And just to finish, don't get me started on Hotlinked Modules, which I have finally had to confront, and the farce required to control their creation and attribute management because we can't have in-place editing...

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

Richard Morrison — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 18:07:04 GMT

jl_lt wrote:
A great example that comes to mind is a software called Evernote. At first it was a marvel of functionality and ease of use and it did exactly what it promised and then some, but over time they added so many useless features while breaking the core functionality that it became an absolute mess. It was sad to see as they just wanted to do too much. I unistalled that app a long time ago so i dont know if it has gotten any better but i doubt it.

This is actually a good example of a software that learned from its mistakes and walked back from the precipice. After a new CEO took over a couple of years ago, they focused on polishing the UI and core functionality, improving features, and I think have done a remarkable job. Now, it just seems to be getting better and better, and less about rapidly building up a user base so the investors can cash out. I cannot imagine living without this program.

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

jl_lt — Fri, 03 Jul 2020 03:32:38 GMT

Thank you Mr. Morrison, i really loved that app too until they broke it. I will surely try it again.

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

dcerezo — Wed, 08 Jul 2020 15:33:10 GMT

DGSketcher wrote:
but what I would like to see, rather than just headline grabbing features, is GS set about sorting the legacy bugs and wishes with frequent updates to show that they are actively addressing their customer needs to make AC more user friendly and efficient.

What he said.

Re: The increasing complexity of ArchiCAD

Bob Moore — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 21:35:34 GMT

I have been using Archicad since 2001 (version 5). After reading all these remarks I must say I could not agree more than the general sentiment expressed. I've been practicing for 34 years, 30 years with CAD. What I see is a real dichotomy between the firms(usually large) that may need this complexity and the small firms that don't. For them, the complexity and constant upgrades are a burden in time and money.