topic Re: Stair tool nightmares in Modeling

Stair tool nightmares

Anonymous — Thu, 25 May 2023 14:41:39 GMT

We have endless endless issues with the stair tool. Even drawing the simplest staircase takes hours of fannying around no matter what settings we adjust. I've set up favorites for compliant stairs which work sometimes but not others despite the fact that the arrangement is 100% correct & buildable. I understand that there's a lot of different instances the tool has to meet, but why oh why is it so utterly over complicated??

My current frustration is in trying to draw a simple staircase with winders at each end. There's gallons of room, the minimum tread & riser sizes are the only constraint, yet it just won't work no matter how I draw or constrain it; and sometimes when you select one of the (incorrect) layouts it suggests, the stair fails to place at all! It's getting to the point that it would be quicker to model each individual piece rather than waste time trying to get the stair tool to do something we know works.

Please, please can we get a stair tool that isn't a massive waste of time.

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Anonymous — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 22:12:59 GMT

Like this for example; why won't it give me the option to have winders at the bottom too??? We're getting sick of telling contractors 'sorry, we actually want the stair to do this but our software won't show it'.

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Barry Kelly — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 02:13:21 GMT

There is a lot of experimentation to do with stairs to get them right.
I find only one small setting needs to be off and it can seem impossible.

Try these settings (I only have 2 winders, you will want 3).
Because I have set it as a winder stair, I then just place the stair with 4 clicks and baseline inside the winders - no need to worry about the pet palette options for flights and winders.
Just make sure that you leave the last 4 treads for the 3rd click.
If you go past the forth last tread for the final turn then you are not leaving enough treads for the stair to work (3 winders + one tread to the side).

Barry.

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Anonymous — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 20:29:41 GMT

Hi Barry,

Thank you for your reply. I do have the settings as per your post however it still refuses to work in many instances. We also very often have scenarios where the first & last tread are the first & last winder as per the attached which the stair tool seems to think is impossible... are you able to shed any light on getting this result?

Many thanks!

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Anonymous — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 21:16:29 GMT

Yet another issue is the landing type options palette, which just refuses point blank to change the corner landing to winders in a scenario where there is no reason why it shouldn't work. We're wasting hours and hours on this bloody tool, and the only thing I can say to everyone in the office is 'just keep messing with it and see if it works' which is just a joke.

I understand it's a complex problem but this isn't the right solution. it's a massive frustration & a total waste of our time and money at the moment, with seemingly no solution other than reverting back to modelling the stair with slabs etc.

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Erwin Edel — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 06:42:29 GMT

That type of stair was already a pain with stairmaker, but at least we could get it to somewhat work. I'm dreading starting up a basic residential project now

Re: Stair tool nightmares

DGSketcher — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 08:38:13 GMT

PrendosJoe wrote:
We also very often have scenarios where the first & last tread are the first & last winder as per the attached which the stair tool seems to think is impossible... are you able to shed any light on getting this result?

Same problem here in the UK with the push for compact stairs. You did mention favourites, which suggests a degree of repetition. If the stair tool isn't working for you then provided the stairs remain constant, then modelling them and converting them to a component may be the better option and quicker. They might also look more like what the joiner needs to produce.

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Daniel Kovacs — Tue, 25 Sep 2018 07:17:16 GMT

PrendosJoe wrote:
Hi Barry,

Thank you for your reply. I do have the settings as per your post however it still refuses to work in many instances. We also very often have scenarios where the first & last tread are the first & last winder as per the attached which the stair tool seems to think is impossible... are you able to shed any light on getting this result?

Many thanks!

Hello PrendosJoe,

The stair in the picture though very typical, it is not possible to do in ARCHICAD 21. This is a serious usability problem, so we changed our algorithms for ARCHICAD 22 a bit, and so now it is possible in that version (see attached picture). Unfortunately this change can't be moved back to 21.

If you indeed have several other typical situations where you couldn't solve the stair with the new stair tool, I would really appreciate if you could send me some files/pictures about those situations so that we can test those out, and see if it is possible, or if there is a bug stopping you.

Thanks in Advance,

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Barry Kelly — Tue, 25 Sep 2018 08:24:04 GMT

Yes, version 22 is better than 21 for this type of stair.
But there is a trick in 21.
Set the flight width a very small fraction smaller that what it really should be, but place the stair to the correct dimensions.
So in this example, place the stair and winders to suit 1200mm but make the actual flight 1199.9mm.
It just doesn't always like the perfect 0mm offset in the corners of the winder.
This will create a 0.1mm offset that shouldn't affect your model or dimensioning.

Barry.

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Anonymous — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 03:17:36 GMT

Hi Daniel & Barry,

Thanks both for the responses. I have attempted the technique you suggested Barry with little success unfortunately.

Daniel we'll be moving onto 22 in January once I've had the time to update our libraries & templates, I'll let you know if we have any issues with the updated stair tool then.

Many thanks

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Geof Gainer — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 16:10:41 GMT

Hi Daniel, thanks for offering to look into quirky stair situations. Here's what I typically have to model.

(Or let me know where I should sent this outside of this thread)

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Lingwisyer — Thu, 01 Aug 2019 02:01:46 GMT

A stair with a winder? As you draw your stair, you could change it to use winders instead of landings, or after placing it, you could select the reference line of the landing, and change it to winder.

Ling.

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Daniel Kovacs — Fri, 02 Aug 2019 12:45:48 GMT

Geof wrote:
Hi Daniel, thanks for offering to look into quirky stair situations. Here's what I typically have to model.

(Or let me know where I should sent this outside of this thread)

Hi,

You sent it to the right place.

As Lingwisyer said, this is quite a simple situation, just a stair with a winder segment on one side. Here is an article about winder segments that might help understanding it better:
https://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/knowledgebase/75535/

If you had issues with modeling specific details of this stair, then upload a picture of that specific situation, and the model (in PLA), so that we can look at that specific situation.

Thanks,

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Djordje — Sun, 26 Dec 2021 11:49:22 GMT

Two years and versions later, and quite a few stairs managed, yesterday I hit a new issue. The Custom profile stringers do not work properly at the internal corners. Only by tweaking the connections - IF they want to work - an approximate result can be achieved.

Treads extend to the sides to the outer boundary of the stringers, instead of ending at the inside of the stringers.

Handrail that is magic wanded on the stair ref line in 3D is losing its associativity if moved to the correct height, because otherwise it clashes with the stringer profile. I should also mention the top rail connections at turns of the staircase.

While the staircase tool is powerful, it shows the problem with any automation or AI - it is as good as the programmer's understanding of the subject. Steel staircases are common. It is not only wood and concrete.

Check... https://cdcon-my.sharepoint.com/:u:/g/personal/djordje_archcorner_net/EWJJcWpW3C5InzJtRsLNoUwBcr4gPMEU5wxQHWZGGHgokA?e=97FtOD

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Minh Nguyen — Fri, 07 Jan 2022 13:57:02 GMT

Hello,

Thank you very much for the report and I am so sorry for the experience!

I downloaded the BIMx file, and indeed I could see the mentioned problem. To help with the investigation, I'm wondering if you could share the original PLN file with us, so that we can investigate how it reaches this state? If you need a secure place to upload the file, feel free to let us know!

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Best regards,

Minh

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Djordje — Sat, 08 Jan 2022 05:11:02 GMT

Thanks for the reply 🙂

Please let me have the upload link.

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Minh Nguyen — Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:40:13 GMT

Hi Djordje,

I have sent the link in a Private Message. Hope you have received it by now.

Could you please let me know when the file is uploaded?

Thank you very much!

Best regards,

Minh

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Djordje — Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:45:29 GMT

Thanks, Minh

Uploading now.

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Ode1 — Wed, 06 Jul 2022 04:18:50 GMT

Daniel Alexander Kovacs,

I have attempted to do that stair in 22 and can't get it to work. I also need a single line of stairs with the 3 winders at the bottom only and it never seems to work. Do you have a video tutorial where I can get the basics?

Re: Stair tool nightmares

Ivan Myers — Mon, 05 Jun 2023 03:56:37 GMT

I know this is an old thread but now in AC 26 is seems much worse. I am so frustrated at the complexity of this stupid tool that I'm considering quitting Archicad all together. Just getting walk lines and UP / DN labels correct is a joke. There is so much control over every aspect of a stair that it is OUT of Control!