topic Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem in Modeling

Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

Barry Kelly — Wed, 24 May 2023 06:17:59 GMT

Now that we have modifiers in complex profiles in version 22, I am starting to set up some more useful profiles.
However I have come across a problem that I am hoping may be controlled by a setting I am missing.
Otherwise it is a rather obvious bug that I can't believe ahas not been noticed.

I have a complex profile wall that has a wider base with a thinner wall above (my example here is exaggerated to show it clearer).
In 3D, the widow reveal offset follows the Opening Reference Line position in the profile.
This is perfect.

However in plan the wall must be shown as 'Projected with Overhead' (rather than 'Symbolic') which means the Floor Plan Cut Plane height comes into play.
If the FPCP is set to a height lower that the recessed wall, then the windows all offset from the face of that wall - this is OK if my Opening Reference Line is at this position.
But as soon as the FPCP height is higher than the bottom brickwork, the windows in plan all offset from the recessed brickwork and not where the Opening Reference Line position is (which is the front of the lower wall.

The attached image will show it better.
Am I missing a setting somewhere so the plan view uses the Opening Reference Line as set in the complex profile?
Isn't this what should be happening?
Shouldn't the 2D view be matching the 3D view.

This was tested with default Graphisoft template and standard window in version 22.
I also tested in version 18 and it was the same.

Barry.

Re: Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

Barry Kelly — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 04:04:57 GMT

I just realised that I have to set the windows to 'Projected with Overhead' as well (rather than 'Symbolic').

However that is still a problem.
I want to keep using the symbolic view of my windows.

Barry.

Re: Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

Ben Cohen — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 05:40:49 GMT

Hi Barry

Try changing your window anchor. Either from reading the sill or reading the head.
This will generally fix the issue. (I think!!)

Re: Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

Barry Kelly — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 06:09:22 GMT

No, unfortunately it doesn't matter what I set the anchor to.
That doesn't affect the 2D or 3D position.

Barry.

Re: Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

Brad Elliott — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 17:43:54 GMT

When I switch my windows from symbolic to projected to avoid this bug the separator lines from my complex profile now run right through my window. To see if I could fix this with a different window projection I started selecting the other types. While this didn't help with the problem, when I selected symbolic again the window is now correct in 2d and 3d. So it appears just switching between symbolic to projected and back again fixes the problem.
I haven't tested to see if this will survive through an open close cycle but I'll update if it doesn't.

Re: Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 02:59:43 GMT

After 3 years they still haven't fixed it (it works correctly in Archicad 18 and before)

This Problem has been around since Archicad 19
IN 3D The origin for the window is set to the widest part of of the wall
IN PLAN The origin for the wall is at the cut plane thickness not the anchor point location.
IN CODE The value of "Wall_Thickness" is still the anchor point

so you can't even code your way out of it.

This use to work correctly (thickness, etc at the anchor point of the window)

It is surprising they have not fixed it yet.

i hope graphisoft is listening....

Re: Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

mi_jan — Wed, 23 Jan 2019 01:12:14 GMT

I ran into the same problem, reading what you guys have posted here helped me find some temporary solutions. I found that by leaving a blank space where the window would be placed, ( Window sill is at 3'-4" Window head at 9-4"). I had another Instance where the window sill was 4-4" Over my FPCP, so the method I used for the previous window did not work.

I found two workarounds, the first one works for windows that are the same Inside and Out; Having the reference line of the exterior wall in the inside of the building, and when I drew the window I placed the Sun position of the window inside.

The second is a bit annoying and time-consuming but it seems to work in the few test scenarios that I've done; (see Attachment)
I Added an Air space where I have my FPCP set, I then duplicated this Complex profile and deleted everything except for the Air Space to be used as a SEO, Drew the duplicated wall over the primary wall, and gave it a Solid Element Operation to Subtract, finally placed the duplicate wall that I used as my operator in a layer that is turned off and set to be wireframe

Re: Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

Barry Kelly — Tue, 13 Aug 2019 07:08:23 GMT

Just bumping this topic.
It seems like a simple fix in that the windows (in plan) in complex profile walls need to have the reveal offset measured from the Opening Reference Line in the complex profile, and not the first fill of the wall as displayed in plan.

Switching the windows to Projected with Overhead display is not an option.

I have a great need to be able to use complex profiles with modifiers, but I can't because the window position in plan does not match the 3D position.
It is especially important for corner windows.

The external of this entire house can be created with just 3 or 4 complex profile walls with modifiers to adjust the cladding heights and depths.
It could even be done with just one wall type if you add all the different cladding options.
But if a door or window is not located in the outer-most cladding, the plan position will not match the 3D.

Barry.

Re: Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

Lingwisyer — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 01:41:26 GMT

Similar to this post? Though we did not come to a resolution for that one either...

Ling.

Re: Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

Barry Kelly — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 02:37:52 GMT

Lingwisyer wrote:
Similar to this post?

Yes.
I have now resorted to adding an offset with stretchy hotspot that I can adjust to reposition the plan view (it won't affect the 3D position which is correct).
Fortunately I have my own window objects and don't use the GS ones, so no problems amending my own scripts.
Unfortunately I have to manually check the 2D symbolic position with the projected view.

Barry.

Re: Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

Ben Cohen — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 05:19:20 GMT

Hi Barry

My office has been using complex walls for over a decade. This has never been a major issue for us.
We have always been able to change the anchor point of the window to 'sill' for the fix.

I have taken a series of screen shots... Note the floor plan view does not change - windows are set to symbolic. Also.. if I change the opening reference line in the profile manager my window WILL react and move accordingly.

Re: Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

Barry Kelly — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 06:47:45 GMT

Hi Ben,
I am not having trouble with the 3D position of the window.
Make sure your Opening Reference Lines extend up beyond the limit of the complex profile.
I discovered that They do not stretch with the profile so you need to allow for that when you save the profile.

You can even add nodes and shape the line so that is follows the profile of the wall.
The only problem with this is the modifiers can't be applied to the opening line so it won't stretch with the profile.

Barry.

Re: Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

Barry Kelly — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 06:50:23 GMT

As I mentioned my problem is not with the 3D position but the plan position.
It seems the symbolic view (which I need) locks onto the first skin that is cut by the Floor Plan Cutting Plane.
The window anchor seems to have no effect on the plan view.

Barry.

Re: Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

Ben Cohen — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 08:08:29 GMT

Right Barry. I see the issue now...

I vaguely remember this happening on a job... years ago...

I guess you must have a base model that needs this fixed?

Its unusual to have a long standing issue where the floor plan and 3d are disconnected. Even if its rare....

Re: Complex profile Opening Reference Line problem

dlv — Tue, 02 Nov 2021 14:07:30 GMT

Since nobody really answered your question, and I ran into the same problem on Archicad v25 which has the same problem (for me). This is how I solved it. I placed an Awning window 6 feet off the finished floor inside of a Complex Profile wall, in plan the window has a reveal of 3.5 inches, but in 3D the window was offset into the interior by more than 6 inches. When I decreased the elevation of this window to less than 2 feet, the window would pop back into the correct reveal of 3.5 inches in both 3D and Plan view. This bizarre behavior was repeated on any door or window in that same Complex Profile wall. What did I do? Used another complex profile, and abandoned the one causing the problem. I had lots of work on that Complex Profile and did not want to create another Complex Profile wall, as this problem cropped up deep into my CD process, and modeling backwards was time consuming.

This is a BUG for sure, and I studied the Complex Profile in EDIT mode and could not find what was wrong. Maybe it was during conversion when this model was imported from V22 or when I updated to v24 then to v25. Who knows. I hope this solution helps someone else.